this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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[–] Vendul 6 points 6 hours ago (12 children)

It’s kinda good but it completely destroyed the European manufacturing for solar

[–] IndustryStandard 4 points 4 hours ago

By providing big subsidies to green energy developement. Something the EU could also have done but refused to. And so they lost their entire lead.

[–] SkunkWorkz 7 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Yep the EU will be beholden to a dictatorial regime again. Instead of placating Putin for gas it will be Xi for solar panels and batteries.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 9 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

At least those items you only need to buy once.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

What? Have you ever had a battery powered device for longer than 2 years?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 12 hours ago

Theyre $1.25 per watt in south America right now (we have an energy crisis due to climate change caused drought)

[–] Shardikprime 21 points 15 hours ago

Solar has always an extremely high ratio for megawatt per mass unit.

This price is really good

[–] [email protected] 94 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (4 children)

Here in Belgium there used to be big government subsidies for solar panels 5-10 ago.

Now the same wattage battery + solar setup without any government subsidies is a good chunk cheaper than that time with the large subsidies.

Pretty cool and shows the power of government renewables subsidies. A huge percentage of houses in Belgium have solar panels now.(and electricity still costs 0.30€/kWh average because of fossil fuel energy lobbies)

Now that there is a local industry around it, most renovations and almost all new builds include them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

As your northern neighbors. We did subsidize it too, but now the privatized energy companies started whining that there wasn't enough capacity, so now they charge you for creating free energy

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Yes I'm considering buying a high power laser so I can send the energy back into space instead of paying the power companies for the privilege of giving them electricity.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 hours ago

Great idea! Some inspiration right here :

https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/

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[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 2 points 4 hours ago

electricity still costs 0.30€/kWh average because of fossil fuel energy lobbies.

This is the price of guaranteed electricity delivered to your doorstep. We can't get rid of gas fired power stations and kms of electricity grid network yet.

[–] sirboozebum 20 points 18 hours ago

4 million households in Australia have solar panels.

They are great value.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

I'm fairly sure that all newly built houses in the UK require solar by law.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

All the new houses around here with no solar would indicate that is not true. They're not even required to have a south facing roof.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

It is very poorly implemented. "Builder grade" solar panels in a "smallest compliant" configuration with no concern for architecture to benefit from solar takes place. Builders are intentionally putting the shittiest solar to reduce value of the homes they build so that they can complain about the policy.

[–] Valmond 20 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Just have to buy 1100 panels 😋 but then the price is 0.055€/watt ...

I Want one, but only one or a couple, to put on my balcony...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Thousands of people buying rooftop panels was never going to be the best way towards a Water/Wind/Solar (WWS) future. Fitting panels to the roof has to work around the roof geometry and obstructions like vents. That makes every job a custom job. It also means thousands of small inverters rather than a few big ones.

Compare that to setting up thousands of panels on racks in a field. As long as it's relatively open and flat, you just slap those babies down. You haul in a few big inverters which are often built right into shipping containers that can just be placed on site, hooked up, and left there. Batteries need inverters, too, so if your project includes some storage, then you only need one set of inverters.

I get the feeling of independence from the system that solar panels on the roof gives people, but it's just not economically the best way to go. The insanely cheap dollars per MWh of solar is only seen when deploying them on a mass scale. That means roofs of commercial/industrial buildings or bigger.

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[–] ikidd 15 points 18 hours ago (5 children)

These are topcon modules only. Considering a 400W panel will have about 72 modules in it, that's only about 15 panels worth. Of course, then you have to actually build the panel and connect the modules, put it behind glass inside a frame, then put in a bypass diode and leads for connection. So an actual panel ends up being about 5-10X the cost of the modules per W.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 21 hours ago (43 children)

$60k per MW or $210M for a nuclear reactors worth (3.5GW). Sure... the reactor will go 24/7 (between maintenance and refuelling down times, and will use less land (1.75km² Vs ~40km²) but at 1% of the cost, why are we still talking about nuclear.

(I'm using the UKs Hinckley Point C power station as reference)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

but at 1% of the cost, why are we still talking about nuclear

Sure... the reactor will go 24/7 (between maintenance and refuelling down times, and will use less land

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 hours ago

The land thing isn't anywhere near enough of a concern for me, especially when dual uses of land are quite feasible.

24/7 is just about over commissioning and having storage. Build 10x as much and store what you generate. At those sorts of levels even an overcast day generates.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 3 points 4 hours ago (5 children)

Using the remaining 99% of the cost to bury batteries underground would seem reasonable.

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[–] DogWater 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Because grid level power delivery is about FAR more than just raw wattage numbers. Momentum of spinning turbines is extremely important to the grid. The grid relies on generation equipment maintaing an AC frequency of 60 hz or 50hz or whatever a country decides on. Changing loads throughout the day literally add an amount of drag to the entire grid and it can drag the frequency down. The inverse can also happen. If you have fluctuating wind or cloud cover you can bring the whole grid down if you can't instantly spin up other methods to pick up the slack.

reliable consistent power delivery is absolutely critical when it comes to running the grid effectively and that is something that solar and wind are bad at

Ideally we will be able to use those technologies to fill grid level storage (batteries, pumped hydro) to supply 100% of our energy needs in the not too distant future but until then we desperately need large, consistent, clean power generation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

You aren't wrong, but you are assuming that the grid is required. Solar panels can be installed at the point of use, and then the grid doesn't come into it at all.

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[–] Benaaasaaas 14 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

Because there are nights there are winters there are cloudy and rainy days, and there are no batteries capable of balancing all of these issues. Also when you account for those batteries the cost is going to shift a bit. So we need to invest in nuclear and renewables and batteries. So we can start getting rid of coal and gas plants.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

The batteries needed are a lot less than you might think. Solar doesn't work at night and the wind doesn't always blow, but we have tons of regional weather data about how they overlap. From that, it's possible to calculate the maximum historical lull where neither are providing enough. You then add enough storage to handle double that time period, and you're good.

Getting 95% coverage with this is a very achievable goal. That last 5% takes a lot more effort, but getting to 95% would be a massive reduction in CO2 output.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (3 children)

Also when you account for those batteries the cost is going to shift a bit.

You better be bringing units if you're going to be claiming this.

Still less than half of the LCOE of nuclear when storage is added: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1475611/global-levelized-cost-of-energy-components-by-technology/

Given that both solar and storage costs are trending downwards while nuclear is not, this basically kills any argument for nuclear in the future. It's not viable on its face - renewables + storage is the definitive future.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 19 hours ago (10 children)

But Germany has no space for nuclear waste. They haven't been able to bury the last batch for over 30 years. And the one that they buried most recently began to leak radioactivity into ground water.

And.. why give Russia more military target opportunities?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

I'm not a rabid anti-nuclear, but there are somethings that are often left out of the pricing. One is the exorbitant price of storage of spent fuel although I seem to remember that there is some nuclear tech that can use nuclear waste as at least part of it's fuel (Molten salt? Pebble? maybe an expert can chime in). There is also the human greed factor. Fukushima happened because they built the walls to the highest recorded tsunami in the area, to save on concrete. A lot of civil engineering projects have a 150% overprovision over the worst case calculations. Fukushima? just for the worst case recorded, moronic corporate greed. The human factor tends to be the biggest danger here.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 18 hours ago

You're using factors of less than 10 to argue against a factor of 100.

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[–] Venicon 27 points 22 hours ago (6 children)

Good news perhaps but I’m sure I won’t see any benefit in Scotland, still thousands to add solar panels.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 22 hours ago

Scotland has really good wind power, anyway. Between that, nuclear, and a few other renewable sources, you guys are down to 10% fossil fuel energy use. So don't worry about solar.

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