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Time is running out for Kamala Harris to break with Biden on the Gaza catastrophe (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

98 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396569

Moira Donegan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 06.07 EDT

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[–] OhStopYellingAtMe 82 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (55 children)

I know that the hold that Israel (and the military industrial complex) has on both major political parties is money, Money, MONEY. But there has got to be a breaking point. I thought the breaking point would be the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent children, but alas.

I mean, I will still vote for Harris, because I’m not stupid. I know the alternative is far worse. But I’d rather not have innocent blood on my hands after I fill out that ballot.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago (13 children)

If you (or anyone else) will never change your vote about it, why would they adjust their position?

You've given them no downside to continuing to support genocide other than the weight of thousands of innocent dead on their consciences. It should be fairly obvious how much that affects them.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Unfortunately, there is a downside to allowing Trump to win. It's the trolly problem and yes I will help pull the lever that kills people to keep even more people from dying.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Democrats already started the second genocide in Lebanon.

And soon a war with Iran.

All the "greater evils" of Trump will have been fulfilled by democrats before Trump even become president

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Then it's not a single lever pull - it's a sum of lever pulls over a long time period.

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[–] Keeponstalin 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Following polls, they would have an upside of about a 6 point boost if they changed on policy. Which is certainly significant with the race as close as it is.

Quote

Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.

Split Ticket (July 2024)

Quotes

In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.

New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)

Quotes

Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)

Quotes

American Attitudes: Shifting Realities After the Unfolding Genocide in Gaza (Nov 2024)

Quotes

Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.

Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.

https://instituteforglobalaffairs.org/2024/09/vox-populi-battlegrounds/#full-report (Nov 2024)

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[–] Orbituary 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Bear in mind that I agree with you entirely.

I fear Trump.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you (or anyone else)

Voters are a spectrum. Some number of people in OhStepYellingAtMe's rough demographic either started out less engaged or have a more visceral reaction and won't vote. A reliable Democratic vote being demotivated means an unreliable vote may already be lost. Not threatening to withhold your individual vote doesn't mean comments like this aren't a warning sign.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (12 children)

A warning sign the Harris campaign has continued to ignore and done nothing to try to win back.

If they think they can win without people who won't vote for genocide, best of luck to them, but they clearly don't want my vote, so I see no reason why I should give it to them.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

What are we going to change our vote to? Only two parties can win this year (let's change that) and the other option is worse on this issue.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'll vote for someone who is vocally and demonstrably anti-genocide. If that's neither of the main parties' candidates that's their problem.

I will not vote for genocide.

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[–] Aceticon 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The slaughter of innocent children makes no difference to sociopaths.

If there is one thing this Genocide on its way to Holocaust has shown us. is that the Democrat Party leadership are without a doubt sociopaths of the worst kind: a normal person with the power they have would not be actively helping it by sending the Neue Nazis the very weapons which they know are being used to massacre children.

There really is no other possible conclusion: no normal person would go "yeah but our campaign contributions from the AIPAC are more important than tens of thousands of dead children" or "yeah but the profits of the MIC shareholders are more important than tens of thousands of dead children".

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If there is one thing this Genocide on its way to Holocaust has shown us. is that the Democrat Party leadership are without a doubt sociopaths of the worst kind

Nah, they're normal people well adjusted to an evil system. The trial of the nazis showed that it wasn't mental illness, just normal people doing very evil things.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's more than that, it's the Petro-Dollar, where the US exploits the Global South with predatory IMF loans, aka Imperialism.

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[–] randon31415 20 points 2 months ago

Time is running for Harris to break with Biden ON ANYTHING. You saw a jump in poll numbers between Biden and Harris because people thought she would be different. Every interview she gives saying "I am the status quo" pushes her numbers back to Biden.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Imagine opposing a genocide only because of horse race politics

[–] ZMonster 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Imagine rooting for genocide only because of horse race politics.

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