this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396569

Moira Donegan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 06.07 EDT

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[–] OhStopYellingAtMe 80 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (54 children)

I know that the hold that Israel (and the military industrial complex) has on both major political parties is money, Money, MONEY. But there has got to be a breaking point. I thought the breaking point would be the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent children, but alas.

I mean, I will still vote for Harris, because I’m not stupid. I know the alternative is far worse. But I’d rather not have innocent blood on my hands after I fill out that ballot.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 16 hours ago

There isn't a breaking point when it comes to capitalism. More money, and more money than yesterday.

[–] Aceticon 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

The slaughter of innocent children makes no difference to sociopaths.

If there is one thing this Genocide on its way to Holocaust has shown us. is that the Democrat Party leadership are without a doubt sociopaths of the worst kind: a normal person with the power they have would not be actively helping it by sending the Neue Nazis the very weapons which they know are being used to massacre children.

There really is no other possible conclusion: no normal person would go "yeah but our campaign contributions from the AIPAC are more important than tens of thousands of dead children" or "yeah but the profits of the MIC shareholders are more important than tens of thousands of dead children".

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If there is one thing this Genocide on its way to Holocaust has shown us. is that the Democrat Party leadership are without a doubt sociopaths of the worst kind

Nah, they're normal people well adjusted to an evil system. The trial of the nazis showed that it wasn't mental illness, just normal people doing very evil things.

[–] Aceticon 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Since Psychopathy and Sociopathy are ranges rather than absolutes, it's estimated that about 4% of humans are Psychopaths or Sociopaths and we're talking about the what's basically the handful of people in a universe of over 300 million who seeks and achieves positions at the top of the Power Duopoly in the US in a domain well know for it's cut-throating and backstabbing, I would say that the odds heavily favour the explanation of them being very high on the Sociopath (or Psychopath) - so called "well adjusted Sociopaths" - spectrum than them being normal people who are "relaxed about personally enabling the murder of tens of thousands of children".

The image of a Sociopaths or Psychopath who actively seeks to inflict horrible pain on others for their own pleasure is incredibly atypical and Hollywoodesque - being high on those scales just means having no empathy for others, including their suffering or joy, and the result is that a Sociopath or Psychopath simply does that which they think is better for themselves and they can get away with (they care about the consequences for themselves, not for others), with absolutely no consideration for how that makes others feel, hence harm or even death of others is fine since that has the same emotional resonance for them as breaking an inanimate object.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's more than that, it's the Petro-Dollar, where the US exploits the Global South with predatory IMF loans, aka Imperialism.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 days ago (13 children)

If you (or anyone else) will never change your vote about it, why would they adjust their position?

You've given them no downside to continuing to support genocide other than the weight of thousands of innocent dead on their consciences. It should be fairly obvious how much that affects them.

[–] Keeponstalin 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Following polls, they would have an upside of about a 6 point boost if they changed on policy. Which is certainly significant with the race as close as it is.

Quote

Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.

Quotes

In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.

Quotes

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Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.

Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Thank you for compiling this so neatly. It's nice to have this all together.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Unfortunately, there is a downside to allowing Trump to win. It's the trolly problem and yes I will help pull the lever that kills people to keep even more people from dying.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Democrats already started the second genocide in Lebanon.

And soon a war with Iran.

All the "greater evils" of Trump will have been fulfilled by democrats before Trump even become president

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie 1 points 1 day ago

That's just the evil abroad. Trump welcomes evil right here at home.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That is a total lie. That's a very small segment of what Trump would do, and Trump wants to accelerate that too. He also holds a lot of anti-trans positions and anti-woman positions.

[–] Mirshe 2 points 15 hours ago

Don't forget that Trump has pretty much promised to import the genocide home. It might not start off with people being gunned down in the street, but it's definitely going to make life hard-to-impossible for immigrants, LGBTQIA+ people, and everyone who's not a straight white man.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Then it's not a single lever pull - it's a sum of lever pulls over a long time period.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

What are we going to change our vote to? Only two parties can win this year (let's change that) and the other option is worse on this issue.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'll vote for someone who is vocally and demonstrably anti-genocide. If that's neither of the main parties' candidates that's their problem.

I will not vote for genocide.

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[–] Orbituary 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Bear in mind that I agree with you entirely.

I fear Trump.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you (or anyone else)

Voters are a spectrum. Some number of people in OhStepYellingAtMe's rough demographic either started out less engaged or have a more visceral reaction and won't vote. A reliable Democratic vote being demotivated means an unreliable vote may already be lost. Not threatening to withhold your individual vote doesn't mean comments like this aren't a warning sign.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago (11 children)

A warning sign the Harris campaign has continued to ignore and done nothing to try to win back.

If they think they can win without people who won't vote for genocide, best of luck to them, but they clearly don't want my vote, so I see no reason why I should give it to them.

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