this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2024

240 points (87.5% liked)

Linux

48187 readers

1254 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

240

Hyprland is now fully independent! (hyprland.org)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

149 comments fedilink hide all child comments

geteilt von: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/19377025

[...] I announce that our move off of wlroots is now complete and MR 6608 is now merged.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] earth_walker 113 points 3 months ago (6 children)

In other words, Vaxry is so unwilling to compromise or learn from others that he would rather isolate his project from the broader FOSS community. That says a lot about him and the people who support him, especially since this conflict with freedesktop.org started over Vaxry condoning hateful trolling of trans people within the Hyprland community.

This is a problem for me as a Hyprland user because if I share some rice I made or make suggestions for other users, I'm leading people into a community that may be actively hateful towards them. It utterly extinguishes any enthusiasm I have for the project. I like the software but I'd rather be part of a project and a community that I can feel good and excited about. Maybe time to find a new tiling Wayland compositor.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (9 children)

if I share some rice I made

FYI: rice is derived from a racist pejorative term. A lot of people in the desktop theming community have stopped using it.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I feel that like idiot, "ricing" is far enough removed from its roots that its fine. Thats just my opinion though

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

As someone who found out it's origin by casually using it in reference to my asian buddy's PC, I'm here to let you know it's not.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

My partner is Korean, and I asked her if she thought this was racist. She said "it is (technically), but who is getting offended by that?"

I never used the term in the first place, but if I did, I wouldn't stop saying it because I know about its past.

I'm fully convinced that anyone who is sincerely offended by that term is looking for something to be offended by.

I don't waste my time thinking about how "smooth brain" is offensive to people who literally have a smooth brain.

I don't waste my time dictating to the English; their colloquial term for a "cigarette" is inappropriate nowadays.

And I don't waste my time replying to comments on Lemmy regarding semantics.

Oh, wait...

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It's so ironic how many downvotes this is getting in the context of this thread.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (6 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] woelkchen 104 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (35 children)

Fuck Hyprland, its developers, and its asshole community. Context: https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html

[–] [email protected] 92 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The bread and butter for anyone wanting a TLDR:

The FDO team is right that Hyprland’s community reflects poorly on the Linux desktop community as a whole. Vaxry [the Hyprland Dev] has created a foothold for hate, transphobia, homophobia, bullying, and harassment in the Linux desktop community. We are right to take action to correct this problem.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And on that note, I condemn in the harshest terms the response from communities like /r/linux on the subject. The vile harassment and hate directed at the FDO officer in question is obscene and completely unjustifiable. I don’t care what window manager or desktop environment you use – this kind of behavior is completely uncalled for. I expect better.

Oh wow. That community is just hateful

[–] patatahooligan 21 points 3 months ago

And now in the r/linux thread about these news people are defending Vaxry, misrepresenting what the ban was about, and hating FDO.

Indicatively, this blatantly wrong comment chain is upvoted:

Is this the project where some red Hat dev started dropping legal threats from their corporate account over offline activities by third parties in unrelated communities years past?

Sort of. You got some details wrong but essentially, yes.

But this is downvoted and has replies telling them they're wrong:

Congratulations to the hyprland project, but I definitely will not be using or contributing to the project as long as it's an exclusionary and intolerant space.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I whole-heartedly agree with this one and I am genuinely not surprised about the behaviour of Vaxry.

To give some context around this, ThatOneCalculator (aka Kainoa, the person behind Firefish) and I maintained the AUR package for hyprland-git back in 2022. When I initially made the AUR package file, it wasn't great (and there were a lot of points to improve these packages) but it worked mostly. Of course there were edge cases where building broke, especially this was my first bigger AUR package to maintain. With it being a -git package in the AUR, breakage is to be expected.

Fast forward about a month, a month and a half. Hyprland rolled out some big changes which caused some build errors. But because my personal life got in the way, Kainoa got sick (IIRC) and I had troubles getting the build scripts working again, so it took a few days to get this resolved.

Vaxry came complaining to comment section of the AUR package "when are you gonna get of your lazy ass and fix this shit" (or something similar to that meaning, I can't find the original comment anymore). After that, I promptly disowned the package and let Vaxry handle it himself.

Because fuck that shit, as package maintainer, I refused to be treated like this. If you think it takes too long, sure, fine, ask if I need help, offer support, anything. But just don't be an asshole towards people, that offer your software to a wider audience.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Vaxry (head honcho of hyprland) responds here to Drew's referenced shoutout. Sharing for completeness sake. https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity

And his response to the FreeDesktop stuff. https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-fdo-and-redhat

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] vikingtons 28 points 3 months ago

Damn, had no idea about this.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Well I was going to try Hyprland this weekend, but I think instead I will very much not do that.

I hope someone forks it from a good commit just before they replaced wlroots. I don’t know the specifics of compositor code at all, but I bet It’s going to cost them quite a bit of velocity to maintain their replacement.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago (12 children)

Any recommendations for a Hyprland refugee? Thinking of trying out niri...

load more comments (12 replies)

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I'd recommend river to anyone looking for an alternative wayland dynamic tiling wm.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.

Hyprland is incredible and hopefully there won’t be any more trouble like this

[–] woelkchen 35 points 3 months ago (2 children)

This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.

Because Vaxry didn't like the public backlash, not because he had any moral problems with the conduct. In fact, he doesn't mind genocide:

[–] [email protected] 41 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think he was trying to have a philosophical point here but took the headass approach to it.

20 years ish old, living in Poland, and perma online does things to a man. Weird though to have a take like that when Polish people in particular were significant victims in Auschwitz

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] laughterlaughter 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aw, man. I think Vaxry's got entrapped here.

He is saying that if nothing can sway you from an opinion, then it is a belief, including being 100% opposed to genocide.

(Please note: I don't side with genocide!!! But I understand his point. Read on.)

I think he's the positions armchair arguing type, not necessarily the evil type.

I can totally see him say "If a group of people's solely reason to exist is to exterminate the rest of the human race, if that's all they think about, if all they do is to accomplish that - induce terror, kill babies, spew propaganda, castrate humans of all races; then it's safe to say that that group of people should not exist and it should be exterminated."

That's an extremely wild scenario, of course! But I think that's what this guy is saying. We may find genocide in general heinous, but he won't say that all genocides are bad because of thought examples like the above one.

Then the other party takes that personally, and extrapolates that Vaxry is in favor of exterminating all trans people - something he didn't say or mean.

My two cents.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] patatahooligan 10 points 3 months ago (7 children)

This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.

Right, but the original mail from FDO basically said "we know about these examples of bad behavior, we want to notify you that they are definitely unacceptable and we expect to never see something like it again". And Vaxry had a meltdown over that. Among other things, he doesn't get why he should be held accountable for behaviors outside FDO. He has also rejected and commented negatively on the idea of any code of conduct at all for his project. Vaxry is making it as clear as possible that he will make zero commitment to oppose toxicity in his community and people took his word for it. The idea that he was punished solely for a couple of comments that happened years ago and are definitely "fixed" is Vaxry's own misleading interpretation.

load more comments (7 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

Damn. I only discovered this project a few weeks ago and just started building a config.

Time to yay -Rcs hyprland.

load more comments (26 replies)

[–] deathmetal27 60 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Does this have something to do with the author being banned from freedesktop?

[–] [email protected] 40 points 3 months ago

Yes

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 44 points 3 months ago

People keep saying this happened only because vaxry got banned from the FDO, completely forgetting the fact that hyprland has used their own modified fork of wlroots for ages now. They've wanted to get away from wlroots even before this whole fiasco, it really just tipped the needle for them to finally pull the trigger.

Mind you also, the ban in no way prevents hyprland from using wlroots still. The only thing the ban did was prevent vaxry from contributing to wlroots upstream, which is damn unfortunate if you ask me.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Wow! Just like how I moved away from Hyprland. :)

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

Ngl this will blow over in like 2 weeks, FOSS drama has the lifespan of a moth

[–] cornshark 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

But why?

[–] [email protected] 60 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Because Vaxry (the lead dev) got banned from contributing to wlroots or any other FDO projects.

As for why he was banned, this is the only thing I've read about the whole thing: https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html

Basically, he violated the FDO Code of Conduct when being told that a particular thing he said/enabled in a Discord community would not be acceptable if it was seen in spaces covered by said CoC.

This appears to be his response.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

Well done to Vaxry and co for achieving such a feat! I still think it's completely pointless but at least it will mean that it can now be more easily packaged for other distros, as it avoids the issue with using tagged wlroots.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Watching the discussion here I finally get how it feels like to be a centrist. And it feels dirty.

Anyway, good for them, or whatever. Hyprland was a'ight when I tested it, even if it ain't my thing. Still hoping for a Wayland Compositor that gives an XFCE-type experience (that is to say, UX without Gnome's 'opinionated' weirdness, and without all the fancy effects that Plasma has. Relatively lighter, also looks a bit retro)

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (4 children)

For everyone shitting about Vaxry, I recommend reading both sides of the equation, not only FDO/Drew's.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 months ago

Reading his side of it only made me dislike him him more...

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments