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so how did the ussr go from this to marching into germany at the end and helping defeat the nazis? genuine question. was it just a case of "ok you're getting a little too close or comfort" or something else?
this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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Yeah, Stalingrad was pretty close for comfort lol. It was an alliance of convenience and then Hitler invaded and continued to genocide across the USSR planning to completely wipe them out and resettle their land.
Essentially, the Nazis and Soviets were allies of convenience. They both had a mutual interest in destroying the sovereignty and nationhood of all of Eastern Europe, but once that was out of the way, it was an issue of "Both sides want full control over the area, and neither side has acceptable goals to the other".
The Nazis eventually struck first in Operation Barbarossa; the Soviets didn't expect the Nazis to be ready to invade them for a few more years, so they were caught off guard, which is where a lot of the "NAZIS GREAT SOLDIERS 1 MILLION SOVIETS = 1 NAZI UBERMENSCH" bullshit comes from. The Soviets were scattered and disorganized, and had to hastily reconstruct a lot of their military doctrine around the fact that the Nazis had just occupied a big chunk of the Soviet Union's industrial equipment and population.
After a few months of chaos, the Nazis discovered that sucker-punching a powerhouse doesn't make you a champion boxer, and spent the next three years getting slowly brutalized into oblivion by the Soviet Army and the Nazis' own dumbass idea to invade.
I would assume the plan of the Soviet Union was to invade Nazi Germany as well, just after they had organized? Or was it just foolish trying to invade the SU at any stage, with the better plan was to hope the two blocks would just somehow get along.
Nazi Germany was always planning on invading the Soviets EVENTUALLY, and both sides were aware of that - the Soviets just thought the Nazi timetable was a bit later. As for the Soviets, Stalin exercised such total control over the Soviet government apparatus and was furtive about his plans even in the best of times, so it's hard to know what they were planning in the long-term - if anything - other than asserting their continued interest in dominating Eastern Europe.
The Soviets were scattered and disorganized
It is not a good idea to sign a pact with the devil when you're not organized. I mean, it's never a good idea, but it's an exceptionally bad idea when you don't have your house in order.
In their defense, the disorganization was because they were retooling their army for war. They had plans for mass-distribution of semi-auto rifles and widespread motorization and were reorganizing their entire chain of command. The thinking was that Nazi Germany was busy with Britain, and wouldn't be stupid enough to fight a war on two fronts against the foremost powers of the world.
They underestimated Nazi stupidity.
Reorganizing their entire chain of command because Stalin murdered half the leadership in a paranoid rage over fears that they might have been loyal to
checks notes
The guy who built the Red Army and won the Revolution. Whom Stalin had assassinated. Immediately following the decade when fascism was sweeping through European parliaments and Hitler was straight up telling the world he considered the eradication of Jewish people and Bolshevism his greatest goals.
I think to an extent part of the reason they were disorganised was as a result of the invasion of Poland though, they suffered disproportionate manpower and equipment losses compared to the Germans
They were disorganized because Stalin had just murdered the entire command structure of the military.
Ah that'll do it
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Because Hitler invaded them. It's basically the same way Britain went from handing over Czeckoslavakia (who they were allied with) to fighting him. Nobody wanted to get involved in another World War, but Hitler forced everyone's hands.
Nobody wanted to get involved in another World War, but Hitler forced everyone's hands.
That's one of the crazy things about Hitler. He was basically handed half of Europe, and could have kept that and tolerable relations with the major world powers, but it wasn't enough for him. He had his sights set on total global domination, and nothing short of that would satiate his desires. I suspect that even the world would not have been enough, but thankfully we never had to find out.
It's one of the big weaknesses of these sort of egotistical maniacs imo, they make decisions based on their own egos, and create an environment where nobody is willing to call them out on it
British Prime Minister Chamberlain shaking hands with Hitler after selling out the Czechs.
Anyone: Russia or China did something fucked up.
lemmy.ml: BUT WHAT ABOUT...!
These people are so black and white, it completely boggles the mind. They live in "X is bad so Y must be good!"
X and Y are both completely fucked and if you can't see that, then so are you.
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The Soviet officer is Semyon Krivoshein, he's Jewish and not celebrating for multiple reasons. The Nazis occupied Brest when they weren't supposed to, Krivoshein got there and started negotiating to try to get them to leave. The Nazis were making a propaganda film out of this (which is where the picture comes from) so they wanted the Soviet army to have a parade with them. After an argument Krivoshein agreed that just him and some of his staff would stand there and watch the Nazis parade out of town in exchange for the Nazis leaving Polish prisoners they took in Brest.
Brest was 50% Jewish at this point, in Operation Barbarossa the Soviets defended for 6 days, Jewish Soviet officers were summarily shot by the Nazis, almost the entire Jewish population of Brest died in the Holocaust.
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Reminder that Stalin was stupid enough to believe that Hitler was NOT stupid enough to renege on their little NAP over Poland. When Barbarossa rolled in, Stalin initially forbade his troops from fighting back because he thought it was a false flag ops by the Western Allies.
Motherfuckers all.
But do yourself a favor and read up on the Polish Resistance. Those were some seriously metal sons of bitches.
And for those of you who don't like reading history: Imagine watching 50-100 of your friends getting summarily executed every day, and it doesn't make you afraid to stop killing Nazis. It makes you even more emboldened, and that's exactly what you do. You exist to make them afraid to walk the streets.
Poles, historically, are seriously badass and do not deserve 1/10th of the jokes made about them
I wish our schools did a better job teaching about resistance movements. Here in the US most people don't know about the Battle of Blair Mountain, for example, even though it was the largest armed resistance action here since the US Civil War.
But if you know what the BoBM is, you know why it isn't taught, for the same reason churches don't teach what the Bible says about usury.
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