As an atheist I support the instance.
this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
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Religion
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Comments here are proof why we need such place.
It's impossible talking about religion without being attacked.
These religious cults have their hold on the rest of the world and the regular Internet, and are quickly destroying the country that I am living in. They always seem well intentioned at first, but will prioritize whatever they think their God tells them to do over what is actually good for the rest of us. Religion isn't fun or kitschy or interesting to learn about outside of its mythology and should be treated with more fear and disgust as a societal ill over any possible reverence
Things you don't like should be forbidden. Is that how you advocate for a free society?
Religions are intolerant of people that don't believe/follow it's teachings. A tolerant society that tolerates intolerance becomes an intolerant society
American evangelicalism is like that, radical Islamism is like that, a few other religious schools are like that. But the common religious form is not specially intolerant, not much than a philosophical school or a political party. Do you want to fight all people who have opinions in the name of tolerance?
common religious form is not specially intolerant
There are several aspects in which religion can harm the society.
The most pressing issue, currently, is that the moderate believers, who are in it mainly for the traditions and cultural identity tend to support the fundamentalists seeking power, because at the end of the day, they do believe in the same set of rules and laws. The moderates are just not making a big deal out of breaking them.
The other, rarely discussed topic, is the normalization of disinformation. Every new generation is being indoctrinated to believe fantastical statements, by the power of authority, yet when they grow up and replicate the behavior in form of alternative medicine, political propaganda, tendency to believe in fictitious conspiracies, we're surprised. Because every religion shares the one fundamental property. It's based on a believe in what is not true.
- edited because I went slightly offtopic at the end.
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It's not q question of moderate or fundamentalist. I'm an extremist. An extremist of love, acceptance and solidarity because that's what I understand when I read the Bible. I fight the fundamentalists, both in the outside and in the inside. And I'm far from alone.
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Religion is not based on belief in the untrue. It's based on belief in the unknowable. Used rightly, religion is on the opposite a way to fight superstition as it helps people thinking rationally on these subjects. I emphasize “used rightly”: of course what you said is true of fundamentalisms.
Even if we accept that religion is not fundamentally based in "untrue", it certainly glorifies the blind faith. At least the christianity does.
One of the verses that made me doubt the whole thing was john 20:29:
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
I've been listening to that verse sunday after sunday after sunday... and it felt more wrong every week.
I wouldn't say “blind”, but yes it's about acting on ideas that may be wrong. But you do that when you marry someone (does they actually love you? You can't know), or everytime you trust someone. Life is taking decisions without knowing. It's the same with the existence of a God: the only purely rational position is agnosticism. But for me, to be agnostic is like refusing to accept the love of someone because they may betray you. It's a rational decision, it may be enough for you and it's okay, but for me it's not enough.
When we take decisions without knowing, ignorant decisions, we not only hurt ourselves, but those close to us. It's simple statistics.
I wouldn't betray a love of my family or friends by willingly endangering them for my religious believes. See, the love argument goes both ways. :P
But you can't act only when you know all the parameters, that was the sense of my love metaphor.
Some people are more happy without religion. Some other are more happy with a good religion. I do not live in America, I live in a country where religions, all religions combined, are followed by a minority of the population. So most children has no religious ties and teachings at all. A lot are happy like that, but others suffer without knowing why. Religion should be a freedom.
Other Lemmy instances can sometimes feel a bit hostile to religion, and I’m hoping to create a place that feels a bit more supportive.
...
I hate how religious people always focus just on others not liking their religion. And never on why people don't like it, and definitely not what they can do to change it.
The rare cases they do, it's just to try and change the public perception. Never about how to actually fix the valid reasons people don't like their religion.
It's slightly more organized cults with better PR
Well, when you believe you're following the word of God, you're going to place that well above the complaints of society.
On lemmy.world, without even talking about the tankie places, a post positive about religion will be downvoted, no matter what the subject or argumentation is. One can be against religion, that's understandable, but that's just being aggressive.
Because the vast majority of religions oppress people...
And lots of religious people don't want to fix that, they want to skip to where everyone treats religious people better and ignore how religions treat people.
If you follow an Abrhamic religion and claim to have to be against abortion and LGBTQ because your religion tells you to....
All the Abrhamic religions also say to do horrible shit like kill non-believers. So if they're saying they have to follow the rules and it's not their choice, we can look at the other things their religions tell them to do, and assume the reason they're quite about those parts, is they don't have the numbers to accomplish those parts.
Yet.
If they want people to be nicer, their primary focus needs to be on fixing their own house first.
It's like a narcissist demanding everyone forgive them, but they don't actually apoligize and definitely don't change the behavior that upset people.
All the Abrhamic religions also say to do horrible shit like kill non-believers
I went to Catholic school for two years, and I don't recall being taught to kill non-believers.
That's kind of the whole point...
Catholics say they have to be against abortion and LGBT because of what the Bible says, but even worse shit is in there that is being ignored because Catholicism doesn't have the numbers.
So either you don't have to follow it, or the organized religion isn't being honest about what they want
And followers are often naive. Which is why it doesn't matter when a fringe group says they decided to draw the line at a more time appropriate line.
If some of it isn't binding, none of it is. And eventually another extremist group will spring from your ideology.
It's like if people started marching around with swastikas but said it's cool because they only follow "the good parts" of being a fucking nazi. If we accept them as a valid group, eventually some members will embrace the other shit.
With religions it's even worse, because you believe an all-powerful entity exists and will follow what you think that entity works. The majority of evil in this world is people who believe they are acting for the greater good.
because Catholicism doesn’t have the numbers.
Catholicism has the numbers. There are several countries in the world which are majority Catholic. (Including Vatican City, which is 100% Catholic.)
It takes more than a simple majority to start killing every nonbeliever...
And like I said:
And followers are often naive.
What's your explanation for saying the Bible forces them to only have some political beliefs and not to support everything?
If they can pick and choose, why should we care what they pick? Either it doesn't matter to them what the Bible says, or they're not honest about their motivations and/or goals
It takes more than a simple majority to start killing every nonbeliever...
Paraguay is about 90% Catholic. Is that enough of a majority? Should we expect a massacre in Paraguay any day now?
I'm a Christian and believe that abortion should be legal and free and that homosexuality isn't a sin. My church has similar positions. Why should I ask people to excuse me for things others do?
So...
You're a Christian that doesn't follow the Bible?
Then you're just picking and choosing what parts you believe and what parts you don't.
Who knows what crazy shit does your cult believes? What opinions do you hold based on faith and an old person telling you to hold?
It's fucking dangerous for everyone else.
Why should people just take your word that you only follow the "good parts" and why should they believe what you think is good is actually moral?
If you're picking and choosing what parts to follow, you can't hide behind your religion as a shield.
I follow the Bible, but I'm not a litteralist. You should read things about Christianity before having definitive jugments.
Then you’re just picking and choosing what parts you believe and what parts you don’t.
You believe a higher power provides instructions, but you disregard some of those instructions.
Even if the parts you follow align with modern mores, you're not following them for logical reasons.
And you can't seem to understand why that makes people nervous, you just want everyone to pretend you don't live your life by the guidance of an imaginary friend.
It's a fucking cult.
Maybe for now it's not dangerous, but very few are until they get a majority.
But I'm done here, you didn't arrive at your position based on logic, logic didn't get you to where you are today, it's not going to get you out of your cult.
You obviously have a very vague (and wrong) idea on how theology works.
Religious people do whatever the Bible tells them to do: "You're a mindless cultist!"
Religious people pick and choose what they believe: "You're a hypocrite!"
Meanwhile, non-religious people do the same things because both of those things are just simple human behavior, but they don't have self- awareness about it.
I know you're trying to say those first two lines ironically...
But yeah, that's right.
Maybe some day you'll see that, but logic won't help until you're ready.
You can't accurately criticize something you don't understand. The more you post, the more ignorant you seem. But by all means, wallow in it. I'm not going to join you.
Some people are proud of their ignorance, that's true of some religious people and some non-religious people.
Definitely. That's part of human nature, too.
A Lemmy instance for religious people to discuss religion
What could possibly go wrong :D
Other Lemmy instances can sometimes feel a bit hostile to religion
A bit? A BIT? If someone set you on fire and then crushed you with a trash compactor would you say they were a bit hostile? Lemmy is overtly hostile towards religions that aren't Islam.