this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2024
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ErgoMechKeyboards

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Ergonomic, split and other weird keyboards

Rules

Keep it ergo

Posts must be of/about keyboards that have a clear delineation between the left and right halves of the keyboard, column stagger, or both. This includes one-handed (one half doesn't exist, what clearer delineation is that!?)

i.e. no regular non-split¹ row-stagger and no non-split¹ ortholinear²

¹ split meaning a separation of the halves, whether fixed in place or entirely separate, both are fine.
² ortholinear meaning keys layed out in a grid

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If you have been using an ergonomic mechanical keyboard for more than year, let us know which keyboard it is, and whether you plan to keep to keep using it for at least another year or if there's another keyboard you are considering trying instead.

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[–] markstos 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

After starting with an Ergodox, I've been using a 42-key Corne keyboard for the last few years.

I love it. My current board is the Boardsource Unicorne.

I'm experimenting the cocot46plus as a "unibody Corne with trackball" for cases when an all-in-one keyboard and pointing device might be more useful, but plan to keep using a Corne a daily driver.

I pair it with MT3 keycaps and Cherry MX2A Browns.

After some practice, my typing speed increased to about 85 wpm on the board vs 65 wpm on my more traditional Happy Keyboard Lite 2 60% keyboard.

I use the markstos layout

[–] Deckweiss 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Keyboardio Model 01 since late 2017 until Model 100 came out early 2022, then I switched to that asap for the nicer switches.

Love them both. Very hackable. Very reliable, especially the newer model, the 01 needed some occasional switch de-dusting.

The only downsides are:

  1. I miss my F keys
  2. There is no way to get custom labeled keycaps except for manufacturing them yourself somehow.
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

4 years with my Iris V2. My only 2 complaints are that I didn't like the default layering layout in QMK and that I couldn't wait for V4.

Incredible keyboard.

I also highly recommend the Otemu Silent Sky switches I used in it, though sourcing them is a real pain. Tactile, buttery smooth, good resistance curves, and utterly silent.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Love mine too. I’ve had one at work and one at home for about 3 years now. Only thing I dislike is that the upper thumb button is useless. I’d rather have an extra key on the lowest row.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

I've been using a Glove80 full time for over a year and I love it! It helped with my wrist pain too. I've not used any other ergonomic keyboards other than the Microsoft one, but I'm very happy with this one and see no reason to change.

[–] cairn 6 points 6 months ago

I've been using my bad wings (v1) for over a year, and I didn't think I'd ever give it up. It's a 36-key mono-body split with a cirque track pad in the middle, and I use it with a miryoku layout. I used it as my only board for several months after I first built it, but I was constantly using it for travel and project computers (it's perfect for tinkering with raspberry pis), so I put another board at my desktop computer and now my bad wings goes wherever I go for my laptop, or hot-desking, or projects, or anything else. I've even used the track pad on it as my only mouse for days at a time.

I recently bought a bad wings 2 as a back up and so that I could convert my first one to wireless with ZMK. All in all, it's been a fantastic board for me, and I'll definitely be using it for the foreseeable future.

[–] glitches_brew 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Pinky3

I've used it for a few years and don't plan to change unless something with an integrated trackball comes along at a decent price. Maybe the Naya but $700 is too much. 💰💸

It moves the micro controller to the pinky zone to free up more pointer finger keys. I love the Choco thumb clusters too.

I also use a Cornish Zen for when I'm in the office or away from my battle station.

[–] markstos 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This looks similar to the Corne V4, which supports 4 additional interior keys.

[–] glitches_brew 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah pretty similar indeed. Might have been a tough choice if v4 was available way back when I built mine.

I do hope more keyboards offer choc thumbs too. It's pretty comfy to rest them just a bit lower.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I've had a Manuform Dactyl 6x4 for about 3 years, it's fantastic and I'll definitely try to get another one if this one ever breaks in a way that makes repair impossible. Shoutout to Ibnu from the other site, thanks bro

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I’ve been using my keyboard, Toast, for two years. I use it with a modified Miryoku layout with Colemak DH. It’s for work, travel and at home.

I open-sourced Toast too

https://github.com/vpzed/keyboards/tree/main/toast

I also built half an MX-switch Helix to have a fully programmable gaming keypad for home.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Colemak DH

Happy to find another user here!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

There are literally dozens of us!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago
  • I was a 60% guy until I borrowed (stole? I still have it) a Kensis Advantage from a coworker.
  • Not long after I built a couple Ergodox (Hotdox). I used all 76 keys for about 5 years.
  • I built a beautiful wireless Ergodox with a metal case and solar charging (SliceMK) that I have basically never used :/
  • For the last year and a half I've used a dactyl manuform (Wylder) that I soldered with ameba king per key pcbs. 39 keys (I don't use a few) + a trackball.

I don't see myself changing anytime soon, auto mouse layer is amazing. I have a Draculad PCB and case but no real reason to build it since I wfh.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I've been using my 34 key ferris sweep for a couple of years now and I love it.

I have a charybdis nano that I need to wire up, it makes me really appreciate the tighter choc spacing on the sweep, that and the low profile keys are doing a lot for comfort IMO

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Do you have any tenting on you ferris sweep?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

No tenting, I have found it very comfortable just sitting on the desk, I think the low profile height helps a lot

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I've been using a Kinesis Advantage for over a decade now. I've tried most of the ergo options out there and I keep coming back to the Advantage. It's the only one that gets the thumb keys right in my opinion.

I currently run a heavily modified version done by the guys at Upgrade Keyboards.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Self made Scylla for a year (it's a dactyl type - 6x4 plus clusters, split, tented, welled, ortho) and I'm cruising on it.

Still adjusting 1 or 2 keys on ZMK but from comfort its amazing.

Bluetooth, USB-C and battery. Enjoying life!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I use a moonlander absolutely love it. Been using it for ~3 years. I have no plans on changing this keyboard. Ive macros on it to manage a lot of my tmux and ssh sessions which makes server admin a breeze. Only minor problem I have with this keyboard is I have never used the left big red button, could probably add a macro there for something though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I got my Sofle V2 in 2022 as a job change present for myself. I've since changed jobs again, but the Sofle V2 continues to be the keyboard I bring into office.

For a long time I was just bringing it into work in the box it came in, but during the job change period, I bought some fabric, an Apple TV (gen 2) travel case and replaced the moulded foam with a fabric base. Had to do a fair bit of sewing but the result has been pretty great.

It gets a lot of curious comments in the office, and I've gotten fairly proficient at Colemak DHm. I'm planning on upgrading the microcontrollers so I can enable tapdance soonish.

[–] something_random_tho 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The only keyboard that solved all my wrist pain was the Kinesis Advantage Pro, which I learned alongside Colemak. Love the keyboard, and if it broke I'd buy it again tomorrow without hesitation.

[–] apfel 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I've been using Zilpzalp basically exclusively for over a year, at this point I don't think I'll ever find a more comfortable board :)

[–] markstos 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Now that you’ve been using this for awhile, how is your typing speed? Or is your preference for it more about comfort and enjoyment?

[–] apfel 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's definitely about comfort, but i've also never been faster on any other board. Gotta admit I'm not a fast typist, with around 80wpm.

[–] freya_lou 3 points 6 months ago

that's what your board should feel like, right. also same, except for splaytoraid of course. I don't use anything else anymore.

[–] bitwyze 4 points 6 months ago

I've been using a moonlander for a couple years now. I love it, but I've been toying with the idea of building my own with a trackball in the thumb cluster

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I used an ErgoDox for years. I wasn't thrilled with the switches, and I wanted more stagger.

For the past few months I've been using a Piantor. I've learned:

  1. Thin is sexy, but I still haven't found anything I loved as much as buckling springs, and maybe I should have opted for less sexy, but more tactile, than what's available in Choc
  2. I really need to focus on a bat-wing style, connected keyboard next time. While the sides don't slide around much, it really bugs me when they aren't exactly where I expect them to be.
  3. I need more tenting; the tenting option(s) on the ErgoDox was good.
  4. 42 keys is just a few too few for me.

I'm a fairly fast touch typist, and while I loved the chording for, eg, the num pad, I have to have too many keys under layers and I can't quite get the QMK settings tuned such that I'm either not getting a layer switch fast enough, or I'm getting them unexpectedly.

I think part of my problem is something the author of kanata found out and corrected for: I sometimes type a following key before fully releasing a previous key, which gets interpreted by QMK and kmonad as a layer switch (and, with 42 keys, almost every key is doing double duty). I suspect I can make QMK do what I want, but there are a lot of knobs and it can be hard to tell what to adjust.

Anyway, I think next time I'll go for less thin, max tactile, more connected halves, at least a couple more keys on each side; I miss those center thumb keys on the ErgoDox. Same stagger. I'm going to have to solve the QMK programming either way.

[–] markstos 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

You might like cocot46plus, although only one vendor in Japan seems it have it.

Also check out the Vulpes Majora by Fingerpunch.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

(Yah, I'm answering twice)

cocot46plus looks fantastic; I do like to have that extra pinky column. Plus, I recently forced myself to convert to a trackball, and having one in the middle there is appealing. I also have a PowerMate that the knob could replace - just about perfect!

The Vulpe Majoris might be even better, since I have large hands and the more aggressive stagger is not comfortable for me. And also a trackball option; these are both fantastic suggestions, thank you!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thanks! I thought you asked your question for a different reason.

Why did you ask your OP? Just curious.

[–] markstos 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

There are a lot ZOMG posts about just-built keebs. That’s a moment worth celebrating, but I was curious which designs people actually stick with.

I’m enjoying seeing the differences and similarities in what people are posting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I'd been wanting a new keyboard for a while, mainly to get better tactile switches and more aggressive stagger. But I tried to swap some keycaps on my ErgoDox and broke a switch, and that was enough to justify a new keyboard. I'm sticking with the Piantor for a while because I don't want to afford to drop $250 on keyboards every few months. So, in my case, I'm sticking with it for financial reasons, not "in love with" reasons.

I do like the better programmability, tho. Definite win, although kanata certainly filled that need adequately.

[–] orclev 3 points 6 months ago

Been using a ZSA Voyager as a travel keyboard for work and very satisfied with it. Used a Sofle V2 prior to that but I was concerned about how well it was (or rather wasn't) holding up to the rigors of travel so I replaced it with something designed for travel and a little more robustly constructed.

I use a Workman layout and a few years ago switched to using homerow mods so I found the modifier keys on the Sofle to be redundant so I decided to downscale to something a little more compact. Because my usage is for work the number keys get used heavily so I wasn't willing to give those up by going to something like a Corne. On the flip side I wouldn't use the Voyager for gaming due to those same missing modifier keys since keys like shift and ctrl are used in a non-modifier pattern when gaming.

[–] corvett 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I've been using the Piantor by Beekeeb for over a year now. I started with the 42 key version, but after a time broke off the outer columns and am using 32 keys.

I'd really only change my daily driver to go wireless, with something like the Chocofi.

That's not to say I don't dabble with smaller keyboards just for fun 😊 I use a 16-key on and off, but I'm not very fast on it yet.

[–] finestnothing 3 points 6 months ago

I've been rocking a technik with purpz and mbk legends for about 2 years now, will probably stick with it until it gives out and replacement parts are no longer available. Low pro, hotswap, metal case, LEDs (never use them though), etc, it's great imo. My raise and lower layers are heavily riced for both my wm (bspwm) and having all my common programming symbols easily accessible.

I've been wanting to switch to a staggered low pro split board for ergo reasons but haven't had much time to look unfortunately

[–] maso27 3 points 6 months ago

I built a Sofle RGB a couple years ago, and loved it so much I built a second for work. Sofle RGB

Then I made a dactyl manuform mini (6 x 4) because I could make the key layout pretty much match the Sofles. Dactyl Manuform Mini I didn't really like dactyl at first, with Amazon's cheapest XDA keycaps, but when I replaced them with something more interesting, CSA they were called, I was a lot happier.

If I had used quieter switches on the dactyl, that would be my work keyboard. But as it is I've got my work Sofle tented to maybe 15 degrees or so and really love it!

I don't see any good reason to change, and wind up swapping between the Sofle and the Dactyl at home depending on the application. Dactyl is terrible for gaming, but way more fun if I'm doing a long coding session.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

I've been using a tshort dactyl manuform 4x6 for 5 years now, having never planned to use it for even 1 year. I only commonly use the two innermost thumb keys; I didn't think I would like the thumb cluster from watching a video of someone typing on it, and I indeed don't like the thumb cluster. The switches are Kailh Brown; one of them started to stutter and I replaced it with ... a TTC Brown or some such.

I've printed, but not finished, a Splaytyl. I think it's going to feel nice, but it's only 4x5, and I'm nervous about not having Tab and Enter on the base layer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Been using the Glove80 for over a year now and I love it.
Everything about it is exactly what I wanted from an ergonomic keyboard and it's also very customizable.
It's been very comfortable for me from the moment I got it up until now. And while I used to like rough PBT keycaps texture, I've learned to enjoy the Glove80's smooth POM keycaps.
I had only one keyboard before it which I could consider as "ergo" and have used for quite a bit - The Sweep. I liked it, but the limited amount of keys ended up being an annoyance for me. Especially when gaming. Plus the Glove80's curve and palm rest make it substantially more comfortable for me, despite it being a larger keyboard.

There are only 2 things left on my checklist for the "perfect ergo keyboard":

  • Lighter switches - I got the red chocs before the red pro chocs were an option. I'm thinking of soldering the 20g ambient switches though.
  • Pointing input module - There was some work going on about an Orbital v2 touchpad integration with the Glove80. But I haven't heard anything about it since (I think it's been over a year).

So I've been eyeing the Svalboard.
I'm not sure it'll fit my needs as it isn't wireless and has less keys. But I love everything else about it.

[–] babeuh 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Coming from a normal 60%, I have a Sweep keyboard (34 keys) that I've been using for a bit over a year. It's overall been great and I prefer it by a large margin to the 60% but the one thing that has been annoying is playing video games, though I'm sure if I put the effort in it would be no problem after a couple months.

I don't plan to change keyboards for a while unless it somehow breaks. Perhaps I'd try a steno keyboard but I'm quite happy with the modified Colemak-DHm layout I have on this one.

[–] finestnothing 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Plover can make any keyboard work as a steno board, haven't messed around with it since early covid, but it's great foss software

[–] babeuh 1 points 6 months ago

Hm yeah maybe I should try that, thanks for the recommendation :)

[–] sudo42 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Been using a Matias Ergo Pro for several years now. Love the chonky CTRL, OPTION, CMD and Spacebar keys.

Before purchase, I read reviews that some of the keys would tend to stick. Indeed, after a few months, the 'F' key decided that it was going to work according to its own plan. So the reviews were right. A good keyboard if they would just fix their d*mn key issues.

Working on building a new custom keyboard to replace it.

[–] YellowAfterlife 2 points 5 months ago

The keyboard I've used for longest was K860 (which still works fine after 3 years and which I still like, though it is rather wide), and as for future works I'd like something between the current two keyboards being Sofle Choc (rotary encoders next to QWERTY B/N) and Redox (thumb cluster layout) with a couple tweaks to allow for closer-angled placement of the halves.

However, no such keyboard seems to currently exist, so I'd have to either find the time to design and build one myself, or commission someone to do that for me.

[–] kamen 1 points 3 months ago

Boardsource Lulu. Built with Gateron Silent Ink Black and MT3 Susuwatari.

It has been my most used daily board for the past year and a bit more. First split, first ortho, first custom build for me. Coming from a 75% board with traditional stagger there was some adjustment mainly due to the ortho nature (but otherwise I was already using IJKL as arrows on the 75% board for example). First couple of days I was typing at 9 WPM (down from my then usual 90-ish), I needed a week to get back up to around 70-80 (fortunately I was between jobs then, so it wasn't critical).

In terms of layout I think this is the perfect amount of thumb keys that's manageable for me (on the bottom left I have Super/Win, Alt, MO(1) and Space, and Ctrl is to the left of A). I have another board with more keys there and they're not all that useful. I think however that I could do with a few more keys in the inner columns - on this board in particular if I want to use rotary encoders, I have to sacrifice the keys in the inner column, and those keys are useful for brackets and also for some primary letters in my native language (Bulgarian - it has 30 letters in the alphabet). I've tried home row mods, but I don't think I can rely on those as the sole way to access a mod. I personally couldn't do without the number row even though I have a num block on a layer - so 60-ish percent is fine for me for most things.

I'm pretty happy with the build quality. One thing I don't like is the plastic bottom - if you don't tighten it properly it rattles a bit, and every time I go about tightening it I'm afraid I might crack it.

I really like the MT3 profile keycaps - they basically hug your fingers in such a way that it's pretty hard to get lost on the layout, and it also encourages proper ten finger technique. As for the switches - I get why people generally recommend lighter ones for split boards - I find those a tad too heavy. Also in stock form they're not fully quiet and have some mush to them (I guess it's inherent to this kind of silent MX switch). I might do a spring swap and lube at some point, or maybe swap the switches entirely (since I have another board that I lug to the office, this one doesn't really need to be quiet any more).

Another board that I'm looking forward to is the ai03 Altair - it solves most of my gripes with the Lulu in that the case is fully aluminium and that the layout has a few more keys in the inner columns. As an added bonus the halves connect using USB-C, not TRRS. The only thing I don't really like is that it has neither a display nor indicator LEDs - so managing multiple layers would be a bit harder unless I find a way to add a LED somewhere. I have the Dark Grey on preorder and I'm probably putting MTNU Graphite keycaps (or perhaps something like MT3 Darkness) on it.

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