This is why users need the ability to group multiple communities into supergroups
this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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It can't be on the users. The issue is that 2 communities can have different things going on, different rules, different events. The best way is to some how make hosting the same community across different instances by the same mods possible. Mirrored communities should be a goal, but tbh, it's just not a real issue like the scalability, general useability, and how the hot page is not a hot page, it's a rising page.
The best way is to somehow make hosting the same community across different instances by the same mods possible.
That is absolutely what you don't want.
Let's pretend you used to use Reddit. Let's say you wanted to talk/read news about the latest video games. Luckily "gaming" exists. It's a default subreddit (or it was at one point). That must be the best place to go.
Except... It wasn't really. Some folks thought they could do better and thus "games" was born. So now we have "gaming" and "games", two places to talk/read about video games.
Except... They weren't really. While those subs had nobel modding goals it wasn't long before they too had issues. No, only "truegaming" could really be the best community.
So now you have three communities, run by three different mod teams (or at least three different rule sets), "gaming", "games" and "truegaming". Which is the real community? Which is the best community? If you want to start a new community what word are you going to use? "RealGames"? "BestGaming"? "GamingGames"?
Look at this example. Android. I like the Android mods, but what if I didn't? Or what if I think I can do better? Should I make /c/Androids or /c/TrueAndroid?
The nice thing about the Fediverse is that we can all federate with one another but no one is overly in charge.
Like the former Reddit Android mod team? Go sub to them in their instance. Don't like the Android sub on this instance? Don't subscribe. Think the instance admins have made a horribly wrong decision? Move to a new instance. (For the record I'm fine with the decision they've all made.)
Unlike Reddit there isn't one big stupid CEO in charge. Instead there are a lot of small stupid admins in charge (and I do appreciate their work).
Now, as for solutions, yes discoverabilty for Lemmy should be improved. If I find one Android community it should be easy to find others, and not just communities named "Android", but anything related across the Fediverse.
This isn't all going to be solved in a day. Communities will fragment. Instances will fall over. New instances will rise. It's a little messy, but we'll figure it out.
I don't see a problem with the example you presented. The three gaming-oriented communities you listed all have their own cultures that have essentially become tied with their branding, each with their own appeal. It would be more confusing to have three gaming communities all using the same name but with different approaches on how they manage their communities. At that point, you'll have to create a guide on which instances would have the type of community that aligns more with your preferences.
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What you describe as the "issue" is the entire point of lemmy and decentralizing and all that.
once lemmy starts dictating "oh you have to change things in this community in this instance to match this instance" and "everything has to follow one master set of rules" they become reddit.
honestly the best way to solve your issue would just be multireddits, if you wanna see content from both communities just add it to a multilem or whatever they end up calling it.
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Respectfully disagree. For example, [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected] are three communities on similar topic with different mod teams, and the culture of each community is a bit different from each other.
So, for big event like this one:
https://lemmy.world/post/1442053
You can access multiple posts across different instances on the same topic with one click using the crosspost links on Lemmy so it's no less convenient than one megathread, and each post will have different conversations from each other, so it's easier on the individual mod teams for the respective communities as well.
Whereas on reddit this would have been a huge monolithic megathread and would be very hard to manage without a huge mod team.
That's the advantage of decentralization.
The entire point of link aggregators like reddit and the threadiverse is to centralize discussion and curation. These sites lose utility if you have many different places for the exact same content.
Then I'm not quite sure why you would expect centralization on an explicitly decentralized network of forums on the Fediverse.
i expect centralization in the way communities work, not in the way instances work. if you want to host a link aggregator, you're building a platform to centralize discussion and content, if lemmy does not work towards that goal of uniting communities across instances, it will fail because no one wants to join 20 small communities to get the same information 20 times over in their feed. this is antithetical to the utility of a link aggregator forum like reddit or digg, and that's what lemmy is trying to be.
Then would you like to go ask the good people at lemdro.id to close their Apple community and centralize it over here please?
It doesn't make sense to me to do so, but if you want it, more power to you mate.
i don't think you understand what centalizing communities but not the instances means. the communities need to exist within lemmy, not within the instance. tieing communities to instances means for a given community there are dozens of copies, none of witch are integrated unless the users use a crossposting feature that no one understands and doesn't make any sense from a moderation standpoint. users and communities need to be unattached to an instance so they can become less isolated from the people who want to be apart of that community but use a specific instance for whatever reason.
What you're asking for is fundamentally impossible within activitypub. You can't have something that's both acting like a hashtag and is moderated by it's "owners." It's better to just realize that certain cream will rise to the top in time and then fall down as it is poorly moderated. Not everybody federates with everybody else.
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Would it be alright if a client app handled this logic? Where you can sort communities organize communities in a folder like interface to customize your "all" feed?
Itβs would be okay, but then it means that you would have to commit to browsing on a single app instead of having your preferences carry over if it was implemented within Lemmy itself.
That is true. I am immediately thinking that creating an export of that data of some kind would be possible. But, it would require lemmy to understand this map or other apps as well. There could be a standard created of profile preferences in the future hopefully.
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Will the old group of moderators be removed and replaced?
The old mods have already left - the problem was that they locked the lemmy.world community behind them on the way out.
I know when this all started, there were some people who volunteered to reopen the community and mod it, and contacted the admin to that end. I assume this announcement is the resolution of that - when the additional week is up, the original lemmy.world community will reopen with the new mods.
So if the new community is still federated with lemmy.world, if they reopen this instance does that not make things overwrite each other or would they have to defederate themselves from lemmy.world?
Sorry if this is a dumb question. New to the fediverse and lemmy in general.
No - they're entirely separate.
Basically the way it works is that you never really leave the instance you're on. When you access a community hosted on that instance, you're of course on that instance. But when you access a community that's hosted on another instance, you're actially accessing a mirror of that community that's hosted on your own instance.
So for example, from your point of view, coming in through lemmy.world, the two entirely separate communities are [email protected] and [email protected]@lemmy.world. The first one is the lemmy.world community snd the second one is a local mirror of the entirely separate lemdro.id community.
Hope that makes sense ..
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If they're not interested in moderating a community here then that's really the only solution.
I agree. They publicly declared their intent to abandon the community. Which it seems they have already done. There is no purpose in keeping them around as moderators if they no longer have any intent in moderating. The only logical conclusion is to find new mods.
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Thank you admins, but it's only fair if c/android members are informed of this, as the current sticky notice there is, in the light of this thread, totally misleading as it gives the impression that 1- the community "officially" moved (not true, only one mod "officially" moved, but he wanted to also prevent those who didn't want to follow him from participating on [email protected] altogether) and 2- that it's permanently closed (not true, again in the light of this announcement). The current sticky is just false.
Current members must explicitly know that the community will reopen in a week (though I disagree that this "waiting period" is even necessary, since that moderator already forced more than one week on us) and that if they want to stay they just have to wait. This announcement needs to be a sticky thread in [email protected] too.
Thank you. A message will be posted soon in the Android community. Good catch to make sure everyone is informed.
Can someone do a ELI5/outoftheloop type summary for me? Why did the mods leave? Where did they go?
The mods from r/Android started their own Lemmy instance called lemdro.id. Among the communities they opened was c/Android. There was already an Android community on Lemmy.world the was active with 15k+ subscribers.
The mods decided to merge with the communities and move over to lemdro.id in the hope to fight fragmentation. They locked the Lemmy.world instance to keep as an archive. And now we're here.
I'll add the post they made in bit.
You forgot to mention that they literally asked no one here if that's what we wanted and arbitrarily closed the community like a Reddit mod would typically do and the whole fucking reason we all came here to avoid in the first place.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I wasn't happy about it either, but I was just answering objectively.
Thank you, the mods in question explicitly doubled down on the fact that the lemmy.world members deserve no say in the matter and that Reddit's holy "moderator discretion" needs to be respected on lemmy.world too. Everyone needs to understand that it wasn't a community that "moved", it was a single moderator who decided to move. You just cannot call it a "merger" in that case no matter what obscene power moves Reddit allowed in the past.
Didn't the android mod team here have multiple mods? If only one decided to move then why didn't the others keep the community open?
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The reasonable solution. Understanding that locking it forever would be depriving this instance of a once active community that people have volunteered to mod, but respecting that the original point of that mod team doing so was to try and consolidate instead of creating a competing community.
My only concern now is that some of the people actively trying to escalate the whole situation into an attack on the previous mod team may be the ones running the place. I hope that isn't the case.
I totally agree with this! It's going to prevent a whole bunch of cybersquatting.
That's great, thank you for this.
Fair and reasonable
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