this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
69 points (97.3% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35876 readers
3530 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

As I understand it there's two main kinds of empathy: cognitive and affective.

Cognitive empathy is the ability to perceive and understand the emotional states of others, and affective empathy is actually sharing those emotions yourself.

I do the former, but the latter doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Like, if I see someone being sad, it's possible that I'll be sad or angry that they're in that situation, but those will be my feelings about what's going on, not theirs.

But for those of you who inherently feel-what-you-see, how does this work with, say, anger?

If you see someone being terribly angry, do you feel angry yourself? If so, who do you feel angry at? If you see a fight going on, do you hate both participants?

If someone is angry at you, are you also angry at you?

I guess this applies to any targeted emotion, but anger is a good example.

top 7 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

For myself, other people's anger makes me really uncomfortable, and I avoid it as much as possible, in part specifically because if I don't, I end up sharing in it, but without a reason or a target. It's really unpleasant because in a sense, it's not real.

Real anger - my own anger - feels complete. Not that it's pleasant or anything - it's still anger. But in a way, it's a sort of relief to feel it, since it at least makes sense. I have a reason for it and a target for it, so it fits. Empathetic anger is weird and unsettling, since it's just there, but it's not a complete, sensible thing.

And you're right about targeted emotions, at least in my experience, and while anger is a good example, it's not the worst.

Grief is awful, because it's such a horrible, desolate feeling, and just that much worse when it doesn't even really mean anything.

Jealousy is another bad one - in fact, thinking about it, I'm tempted to say it's the worst of them all, because it's so unpleasant, and in multiple ways, and it's so entirely pointless without an actual reason or target (it's arguably fairly pointless even with both).

On a somewhat different note, just because I'm thinking about the trials and tribulations of affective empathy - embarrassment is weirdly bad. Partly it's that it's unpleasant, but more it's that it's such a common aspect of other people's enjoyment - there's a great deal of comedy that hinges on laughing at other people's embarrassment, and it's all completely lost on me, because I'm stuck just feeling pointlessly vicariously embarrassed.

Broadly, the way I have to deal with all of it is to try to avoid situations in which I'm going to be subjected to other people's unpleasant emotions, and if I find myself in one, to try to shut myself off from whatever they're feeling. I'm okay up to a point, but I can feel it coming if I'm getting to the point that it's going to suck me in, and pretty much all I can do then is resign myself to it or throw up a barricade and just shut it out. Which sort of ironically makes me come across as aloof - as if I'm insensitive rather than overly sensitive. That gnaws at me, but there really isn't much I can do about it, since I already have enough to deal with with my own emotions, and just don't have the fortitude to deal with everyone else's as well.

[–] MaceyDay 4 points 5 months ago

Are you me? You said it much better than I could.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

For me personally I don't have much control over my empathy. Sure I can look at someone and glean their emotional state based on conscious guessing, but my "affective empathy" as you put it, is more my brain subconsciously picking up on their emotional state and then sharing it.

For most emotions, including anger, it's not targeted. Not until I actively participate in the emotion. It's also not something that applies to everyone and every situation, with my own personal emotions easily overriding the empathetic emotions.

Of course, everyone experiences empathy their own way.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

It strikes me that I went on at great length but didn't directly answer your main question.

Targeted emotions felt via affective empathy (at least for me and presumably for others) aee generally either directed at the same target as they are for the source or untargeted. Though sometimes, they can end up being directed at the wrong target.

I think the way it generally works is that if I both feel affective empathy and experience cognitive empathy, then the emotion ends up aimed at the same target, since the cognitive empathy provides a framework for it. For instance, I feel someone else's anger and understand who they're angry at and why and agree that it's justified, so I end up angry at that target too.

And yes - if I'm the target and I grasp the idea behind it, so experience cognitive empathy, then I do become my own target.

If I don't have the context for cognitive empathy though, the emotion is just sort of there. I'm just aware that being in this place or around these people or whatever is putting me on edge. I don't quite feel the full sense of the emotion then, presumably because it needs context and a target to fully manifest. Instead, I feel a vaguer, less directed form of it - like being around angry people without really focusing on it, so not getting cognitive empathy, just leaves me feeling unaccountably stressed and cranky. Or being around sad people makes me feel unaccountably melancholy.

And along with that, one thing it definitely does is prime me to find something to direct it at. It's not just that I feel unaccountably cranky or melancholy or whatever, but that I'm likely going to (over)react to the first thing that happens that provides something like justification for the full-blown emotion. Like once it starts, it has to find a way to fully manifest.

[–] Flummoxed 2 points 5 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly with all you have said. It is especially frustrating when someone else's emotions prime me to feel that emotion overwhelmingly when the next slightly justifiable situation occurs.

For example, I had a friend who was going through the end of a terrible marriage and we talked about it a lot. She would leave, and then the next thing that came out of someone else's mouth would often make me snap at them, which would confuse them. I would feel justified in my anger at the time because it felt so real, but later realize it was just carry over from my conversation with my friend.

Luckily, she is divorced now and doing great.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I will feel the person's anger more and more strongly as the distance between us decreases. The person doesn't need to outwardly show any sign of anger for me to feel it - they can appear perfectly calm but if they are angry, I'll feel it.

When I interact with people, I don't try to put myself in their shoes. I've known for many years that I can sense other people's strong emotions, so I mostly focus my awareness on how I'm feeling and use that as a sense. If how I'm feeling changes spontaneously (not caused by my mental focus, thoughts, or reaction) when I'm interacting with someone, I'll know that I'm sensing something from the other person.

My experience of other people's anger is different from when I feel angry. I experience other people's anger as a very uncomfortable sensation my abdomen and solar plexus. It's similar to when I feel angry but I'm more detached and I'm observing the uncomfortable sensation, which is mostly localized to my solar plexus. When I'm angry, my thoughts and emotions are fully engaged, my anger has a direction, and I feel it fully in my body. Like, "I'm experiencing anger vs I'm angry."

When I experience someone else's anger, it's not directed at the object of their anger - it's just a sensation.

So if someone is angry at me, I don't feel angry at myself - I just feel their anger being directed at me

The way I believe it works is through resonance. Have a look at this video that illustrates it with wine glasses: https://youtu.be/lTl0badhh8Y

People are like wine glasses that vibrate how they are feeling and if someone is capable of resonating with them, they begin to feel it too.

If my baseline feeling is far from anger (I'm feeling a strong positive emotion), I'll feel other people's negative emotions less, or not at all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Emotions we feel don't have to make sense to us. There are some situations where someone else's anger will make me feel angry even if I don't understand what's causing it. If I like the person then I may be angry with them, and if I dislike the person then I may be angry at them, but me understanding the reason is not required.