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Have you spoken to a therapist about these feelings? Things like depression can make negative thoughts seem much more real and reasonable than they actually are.
I mean, if youβre terminally ill and dying next week I guess itβs possible those are realistic thoughts. But if thatβs not the case then that sounds much more like doom spiraling to me.
I wrote this originally for the other thread but it was deleted.
To start with, it's clear that your self-esteem is very low, and you've internalised an intense criticism of yourself. If you can access one, please speak to a professional, licenced, therapist.
They will be able to help you build a staircase out, but it will take time. Please try and resist the snake oil salesmen who offer quick solutions, which are designed to fail to keep you coming back.
To answer the question, at 13 I had developed a crush on a girl in my class, and I was not chill about it. To be clear, I didn't do anything bad, but it was intense and with 20 years of hindsight she didn't deserve it. I'd always be staring at her, I'd try to sit near her, I'd set really really obvious MSN status messages about her. During a particularly dark patch I literally carved her name in to my arm with a compass. Throughout all of it she was nothing but kind, and consistent. She didn't love me. She avoided being around me as much as possible to not give any hint there might be something. She never mocked or teased me.
There were two girls I knew who would speak to me. They were in relationships with two of my close friends, and were "safe" from possibly becoming the focus of my affection, but also kinda stuck with me because not spending breaktimes in school with your bf would be a scandal of the highest order.
Over the next 4 years we'd have various conversations, and they'd try and help me realise that what I was doing towards my crush, a) scared off a lot of people, and b) made it very clear to girls who may have had a crush on me (which I refused to believe was possible because I was destined to die cold and alone) that I wasn't interested in anyone else.
So by the time I was 17 I had basically alienated myself from all the other girls in school and convinced myself that all my worst thoughts about myself were true, because, well, yeah, obviously.
Then two things changed.
First was that I finally accepted that whatever other reasons there were for my situation, my behaviour was making it worse, and that I could at least stop doing that. It wouldn't solve everything, obviously, but it would allow things to be a tiny bit better. I needed to chill the fuck out, and let go of this obsession with my crush.
And the other was that, because by this point these two girls were my friends, not just my friend's gfs, the idea of just speaking normally to women wasn't scary. Flirting was still terrifying, but some switch flipped in my mind from women being only something to attract and sleep with, like some sort of conquest, to being people just like me who are perfectly happy to just talk about stuff, just like my guy friends. Because I really valued their friendship, I realised that it made me happier than whatever the fuck I was doing to myself about my crush.
So by being more chill, I'd be less sad, and by just being friends with people I liked, I'd be happier. Win win.
After a few months of being a bit more chill, and focusing instead on just being a person who it was nice to talk to and be around (yknow, not constantly trying to look down someone's top) I was at a tiny local gig of maybe 30 people that my friend's band was playing at. One of the girls in the group I was with had spotted a girl we didn't know, was our age, but didn't go to our school. She was enjoying the our friend's set, but seemed to be on her own. She introduced herself to this girl and asked if she wanted to hang out with us, that the band were our friends and that I (because I did a bunch of computer stuff for them, like burning cds, storing recordings, etc) could give her a free CD and can probably answer any questions she may have.
This meant we got talking, we had a good evening, at the end of the gig I asked her for her email/msn so I could add her to the newsletter for gig announcements, and that I'd be happy to send her new songs. She gives me it. While I think she's beautiful, I have no intention to use it for anything else. That would be the actions of a creepy mf, and I was chill now. She's just a person who happens to like a band I'm involved with, nothing more.
Over the next, I dunno, 6 months or so, we go from talking occasionally to every day. She introduced me to Ghibli anime, which gave us even more to talk about.
I end up talking about her all the time to my friends, male and female. They all encourage me to ask her out. I quite literally have a panic attack. I'm terrified that by asking her she will hate me and I'll lose a really close friend, by being a creepy twat like before. I bitch for weeks about how it's bullshit that men are meant to make the first move, and one of my female friends finally snaps and says something like "you just said you were up until 3am talking to her about what porn you both like and that she'd really like to try X/Y/Z out, but doesn't have anyone to do it with. How can you not see that she's super in to you?!"
I finally pluck up courage to ask her out on a date, just a meal in town, she immediately accepts. I have a panic attack in the restaurant, I am sick multiple times. It was by all accounts a terrible, terrible, date. I think I spent more like talking to the toilet than her.
She suggests we go for a walk around instead. Which we do. I spend the rest of the evening hoping that we'll find a corner shop that is open so I can get some gum, but we don't find any. We wander around town, getting physically closer with each passing bench, she tucks her self in under my arm "because it's cold" (in June?!). When she has to get her bus home, I can tell she wants me to kiss her. I cannot kiss her, our first kiss, fuck, my first kiss ever, with whatever remnants of stale sick are on my breath. She may be down, I am not.
I give her a big hug and peck on the cheek, say I had a great evening, panic attack aside, and please call me when you get home so I know you're safe.
An hour or so later the phone rings, and we end up again talking in to the early morning, as things get increasingly explicit.
The next week I ask her if she wants to be my gf. She immediately accepts. I invite her to the friend-who-told-me-she-was-in-to-me's 18th birthday party in town. Probably half of our class have been invited, including many of the girls I'd alienated myself from. This time I eat very little to make sure there is nothing to puke up should I have another panic attack, and get some gum. She arrives after me, and my friend would later claim "how did HelloThere get a girlfriend?" was something people spoke to her more about than her actual birthday.
Later, I walked her to her bus, and this time we did kiss. It was similateously the most under, and over, whelming experience of my life to that point. Physically it was pleasant - we both knew that she was my first kiss, and that I wasn't hers - so the fact that I didn't immediately smash my teeth in to hers was a win. But emotionally it was a rollercoaster. I don't want to suggest that from that point on I was some sort of Cassanova, because I am not at all, but the amount of validation I felt in those 15 seconds or so was immense. This was the proof that this person I thought was incredible actually did like me. Why? No idea, I'm literal human garbage, but she thinks I'm not! Holy fuck! Or she's in to garbage. Either way, yay!
Over the next 4 months or so we tick off the rest of the firsts, and gave our virginities to each other.
You asked specifically about sex. Losing my virginity was one of the least enjoyable sexual experiences I've ever had in my life. But I'll cherish it forever. Emotionally, like the kiss, it was everything all at once.
We broke up after about 18 months. I'd moved away and gone to university, and had moved on. While I was the one who broke up with her, the aftermath I handled terribly and was just a prick. I left horrible voicemails and would later drunk text non-apologies - she ultimately blocked my number, Facebook, everything. And she was right to.
After a few months I had calmed down and got better at regulating my emotions, and eventually I went to therapy and got help with abandonment and esteem issues.
Many, many, years and 3 more failed relationships on, I'm 9 years in to a very stable long term relationship with someone I absolutely adore. My single goal is to not repeat the same mistakes as before, and we tackle everything as a team. If we're feeling uneasy we speak to each other and help each other. I'm so proud of what we have built together. She is the smartest, most empathetic and kindest person I know. I count myself so lucky that she is my best friend, a willing big spoon, and I get to play with her boobies. It's incredible.
But it all started with me accepting a sliver of responsibility for myself, that I had a small ability to make things better, and if I did then maybe others would respond positively to it, and want to be around me.
I really enjoyed reading your story. It's honest about your faults and kind to yourself at the same time. I hope I can find a way to see my own life in a similar way.
Thank you.
It's taken a long time, and I'll be honest and admit that a good amount of what was written above was by the more adult and rational parts of my mind, than the emotive bits. I'm still working through a lot of shame, and on bad days it's still floods back, but usually less than before.
There's many thousands of steps ahead of you, but you'll get there, I believe in you.
Dude, consider getting therapy. You need to learn to love yourself first
I could go on like everyone else and try to make you understand that you absolutely have many more chances for love and that you, like everyone, deserve love. However, it seems like that's just not an answer you're willing to accept.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy: if you tell yourself you suck or that you're awful or that there's no way you can ever deserve love, then you yourself will make it happen, whether consciously or subconsciously. You can say you're like this or that and that no one wants this or that but that's actually verifiably false. MAYBE if there's only 100 people in your small village then maybe there's no one there, but there's an entire country, an entire continent, and entire world that you just need to open yourself up to. There's not just one person who would want to love you but so many. They just don't know it yet.
But you know what, you're right, fuck me and everyone else telling you this. You must be unlovable and an awful person because you say so and because everyone isn't their own worst critic (that's heavy sarcasm, by the way).
Seriously read some of these posts here and think about them. Don't just read them and think the entire time "well that's great for you but it could never be me". Open yourself up to other perspectives and you'll be better for it.
He won't listen. He wants to dwell in his own self pity
You've certainly managed to get a lot of nice people to waste a lot of time trying to be positive and give good advice here. I'm betting a decent amount that you're a troll pretending to be an incel.
If not- you've spent so much time explaining why you're a miserable sack of shit that I'm just going to believe you. No one can help you but you. If you don't want help, fine, just stop spreading your misery around.
Love can hurt too.. I am going through a rough patch at the moment and I sometimes wish I never knew love because the pain of losing it is the worst pain in the world.. I donβt think that helps you much, but it is another side
Kinda boring. I don't think about it. We look after each other with love and spend probably too much time together because we enjoy each other's company. But it's not the incredible harlequin drama you might think.
I want to give an honest answer here. I am in a relationship of 10 years and there are a couple points worth making upfront. Sex doesn't make a relationship - not everyone feels this way but you can have a loving relationship without it. Children are not something I've ever personally wanted so I can't attest to that. That being said, being in a relationship is overall good for me. It has made me do things and go places that my introverted self would have never done or gone to in the first place.
More importantly than any of that, don't give up hope that you'll find someone. It may not be tomorrow, it may not be this year, but if you keep believing that you'll be alone indefinitely then you might just manifest it. I can't exactly give tips on how to meet people - being an introvert and out of the dating pool for so long means any direct experience is not very relevant, but I can say try to meet new people and see who you jive with. I think relationships are probably easiest to foster through shared experiences and meaningful connections, so if you can find a group of people that share a common hobby/passion, that might be a good place to start.
Well, it has its ups and downs... I'm in the process of getting a divorce and my youngest son is soon to be a year old.
For me it's been a learning process and I don't have any regrets, not even with the situation I'm in right now. We know each other well, and it has been good for almost 10 years, but it's time to find something that makes me happy. I've neglected a big part of myself for the past years, but it's a choice I've made to be able to have two great children and a partner to share things with. We are just not compatible as a husband and wife any more.
The children aspect brings me more joy than anything else I've experienced, but that's probably a personal trait and not for everyone. To watch them grow and become goof machines is a big part of why my life has never been better.
10/10 would recommend both, but they are a ton of work, a source to misery and failure, but that's a part of the experience.
Being in a relationship gives me a sense confidence in myself.
If you do not hear these people out, you are denying yourself the chance for a better life. By refusing to believe you are capable of what you want, you are making it impossible for you to achieve your goals. Because you won't try.
Good luck β€οΈ
I was not in love but i can talk about being in a relationship. Its nice. You have someone to talk to when you want. You have someone to help you when you need help and someone to help when you need to be helpful. You can share your victories without judgement.
Its nice to not get into an empty bed. In winter when it's cold you get into bed and warm each other up. Sex is good but it kinda becomes a step by step routine when you know what each other like.
In regards to your attitude. Women don't actually want that much. Even ugly and outshape poor guys can find people. But if you are convinced that you are a person no body wants you need to take steps to improve yourself. In 6 months of hard work you can completely reinvent yourself. Jump on steroids start going to the gym 5 days a week. Do cardio, get a dog and pick a generic hobby like watching Netflix then start trawling tinder. Once on tinder you should accept every date opportunity even the fat ugly girls just to get practice and confidence. Give tinder at least 6 months before you give up.
That probably won't get you a good relationship but it will get you experience with women and you'll realize they're humans with flaws and you'll stop putting then on a pedestal. You could also try an escort just to get rid of the virgin nerves.
If you want to get steroids go to a trt clinic and make sure you have crashed your t levels before going.
I was in a total of one relationship that can universally be agreed upon to be a relationship, but I could not tell you how it felt back then (well technically I could) because I severely took it for granted and the only two things I could remember from how it felt was that it was a bubbly young love type of relationship and I thought we went well together. We were hinging on ending it and happened to have left closure ambiguous before he was hospitalized which leaves me wondering if it's still a thing. Sometimes he remembers it that way and says it is, sometimes he doesn't.