this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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Team Fortress 2 is now at a 15% review score due to the #FixTF2 movement (programming.dev)
submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] TootSweet 59 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I don't really have any investment in TF2.

But if I were involved with the #FixTF2 movement, I'd want it to be careful not to make the big wigs at Valve want to just slap Valorent-like anti-cheat on TF2.

It does seem like the page for #FixTF2 talks about zero tolerance policies and basically manually banning people based on reports. But not explicitly saying in the petition to Valve that kernel-level anticheat is not the solution seems risky.

Edit: Ok, looked a little closer. It doesn't seem like #FixTF2 is really against invasive client-side anticheat measures. They talk about "updated anti-cheat measures" as something they want, but don't put any qualifiers on that. That's unfortunate.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 weeks ago

I give Valve the benefit of the doubt and assume that they know that there's plenty of consumers that are heavily against a kernel level anticheat. Valve is not really known for anti-consumer bullshit like this.

[–] AngryishHumanoid 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I haven't played TF2 in 6 or 7 years but it sure as shit had anti-cheat measures back then, how'd it get this shitty? Dev neglect?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 weeks ago

Yep. It's a 17 year old game on a 20 year old engine, and most of the improvements made to more recent multiplayer source games were never backported.

It only got a 64 bit release last fucking year, after the last big fixtf2 push, when valve hired a single contractor to work on things for a few months.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What's the story? What's wrong with tf2

[–] Ledivin 95 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Bots and cheaters have completely overtaken it and the small community that still plays has finally had enough

[–] [email protected] 60 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

the small community that still plays

70k+ people playing daily

You and I have very different concepts of small.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Surely that 70k would include the bots though? Like of it's 69,500 bots and 500 people then it seems fair to call it a small community

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago

Na there is a lot of real players still playing.

Aus for example community servers get full quick, there is a pro league going with multiple divisions, and then those who try brave casual servers as well.

Aus alone would have over 500+ players regularly playing daily.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Check this video, bots count as players in the stats, the real player numbers are like 15k/10k.

https://youtu.be/2stmQfv93oQ

[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 weeks ago

Not bad for a 20 years old game.

[–] Blaster_M 38 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Botters have gone from aimbotting and afk item farming to basically crowding public lobbies with their bots, then using ai to voice spam slurs and "confessions of illegal activities" in the voice of people trying to bring attention to the bot problem. The botters have also done both doxxing (impersonating said people and spamming their personal info as well as using ai voice chat spam to get people to do vigilante action against innocent people), swatting (see previous), as well as using their majority in a server to kick anyone that tries to combat them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxjTciIwig

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

That's so grim.

[–] RageAgainstTheRich 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Valve just closing their eyes and ears like they do to all other shitty things being done by players on their platform.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What do you want them to do? Shut the game down?

[–] RageAgainstTheRich 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What kind of dumb answer is that? So its either accept the way it is or shut the game down? There is no way to fix a thing? Can't work on anti cheat, better moderation, actual consequences for the assholes doing this, etc?

What is it with so many people crawling so deep up Valve's ass. They are not some holy company that loves you deeply.

And I'm not just talking about the tf2 situation. Valve turns a blind eye to a lot of things on their platform such as hate speech and groups that purely exist to harass people.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

its either accept the way it is or shut the game down?

What kind of dumb question is this? No, I asked you for a solution.

Can't work on anti cheat

Everyone's working on it. It doesn't work.

better moderation

How so?

actual consequences for the assholes doing this, etc?

Valve hands out bans like crazy but they spin up 100 new bots for every ban.

What is it with so many people crawling so deep up Valve's ass

What is it with so many people asking stupid questions?

[–] RageAgainstTheRich 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Why do i need to come up with a solution? I don't work at Valve. We're asking Valve to come up with a solution and do something. Its their game. Its their code.

And to pretend Valve is trying hard is very ignorant... the only thing they try hard is adding more hats and making sure the marketplace works.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago

Why do i need to come up with a solution?

Because you're the one saying there is a solution when there isn't.

[–] shotgun_crab 7 points 3 weeks ago

Some people just have too much free time huh

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 weeks ago

Now we're truly competing with Overwatch 2 on review score

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

How have people not given TF2 a negative review long before this? It's been full of cheaters for YEARS AND YEARS at this point.

Cheaters with stupid hats and pointless alternative weapons. Game never should have lost its original focus.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

I expect people have moved onto other and better games, and never bothered to update their review from years ago - I definitely fall into that category.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

community servers are fine, and it's a great game. people were just holding out hope that valve would do something but they didn't.

[–] jrgn 14 points 3 weeks ago

https://save.tf

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Quake Champions is 🔥yall

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

i did my part and slapped a negative review

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I used to play TF2 a lot on Steam.

Then players started getting salty with me.

So I haven’t touched it ever since.

[–] spez_ -5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Why don't they just shut down TF2 servers and call it a day?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

All of their other games economies wod crumble if they did that

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm not familiar with TF2, why would it break other game economies?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It would set a precedent for valve just pulling the plug on a game/marketplace. If all your digital collectibles in a game, some "worth" thousands of dollars can't be accessed/used, everyone would start fire sales on their other inventories.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Especially bad when TF2 was pretty much the prototype for valve's item marketplace!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

This makes sense, thank you

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 weeks ago

pretty much yeah