this post was submitted on 22 May 2024

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Are you chatting with a pro-Israeli AI-powered superbot? (www.aljazeera.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/technology

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[–] givesomefucks 68 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Before they had bots, they had the Act.il app.

People could submit random social media comments/posts that were critical of Israel, and if you went to that site and commented, you got "points" that could be redeemed for gift cards.

Not much money, but it was all online so people from a lower income country could make decent money off it compared to local employment.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ishmaeldaro/act-il-social-media-astroturfing-israel-palestine

After blow back they delisted the app

Now I think it's just a website instead.

It's good people are finally talking about all the propaganda Israel puts out tho. But it's not a new development. They're just switching from humans in poverty to AI.

Hell, we're probably better off if they think AI can do as good of a job at this as humans.

Quick edit:

Mentioning the act.il app on Reddit used to get you banned from a lot of the major news/politics subs

So it was really hard to talk about.

[–] Asidonhopo 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I remember reading there was something like this back in the mid/late 00s too, maybe without the giftcards but you could sign up for email alerts when there was a forum thread that needed to be brigaded, long before even reddit was a thing.

Edit: read about it on Metafilter at the time but it seems to have been purged. If you're interested maybe the post is findable on the Internet Archive

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Or the pro-Russia AI-powered Superbot Or the pro-China AI-powered Superbot Or the pro-India AI-powered Superbot . . . .

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Reminder that almost 10 years ago, Reddit accidentally released that their most "reddit-addicted" city was Eglin Airforce Base, which has multiple Cyberspace units.

If any government is trying to influence you on an american-based english-speaking websites, it's the American government.

[+] Eldritch -10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's non sequitur. And doesn't really even pass basic critical thinking tests. The government which has outsized control of all television radio and print media in the United States. Is really spending that much time and effort to propagandize to Americans on an international platform already heavily skewed fascist and right wing? Just because they ran ML off doesn't mean it was some sort of government psyop. A lot of people even on the left. Don't like Marxist leninists for good reasons.

Social media is one of the current best vectors for finding influence in the United states. If the US government really is using it to propagandize the people. They're doing such a poor job of it I don't think we really have anything to worry about from our governments propagandizing at all.

Nearly half the American voting population has a more favorable outlook on a foreign fascist dictator than they do our own president. And a large chunk of that current government is actively seeking to hurt American Allies and destroy the country's power at large. Talk about a propaganda fail.

No the more likely explanation is that they're pissing against a tide of a foreign misinformation. And having just about as much success as pissing against the ocean.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”

William Casey, former director of the CIA, upon being asked what the goal of the agency was (in 1981).

[–] Eldritch -5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But they do it for a reason. For a purpose. Not just for funsies. I don't see how them spreading misinformation weakening themselves is a logical goal. This is what you are arguing for. You need to support this. And the quote you just quoted does not

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Sure. Sometimes that purpose is merely to cast aspersions or muddy the water. Look at the flat earther community, or Jackson Pollocks career.

Without context these just seem like the government having a laugh, but if you understand the metrics they are trying to shift, their actions take on a different meaning.

The idea isn't to make the voting population unified behind the president, it's to divide them against each other.

[–] Eldritch -1 points 1 month ago

I'm not denying that all countries do it including the United states. What I'm simply pointing out is the absurdity of the claim that the United States and their military are even very prevalent let alone effective at it these days on line.

There are much better/ safer ways of keeping the population divided without turning them into acolytes of a foreign adversary.

Combine that with the fact that China and Russia are even bigger Echo Chambers than the United Statesever was. The fact there was even debate about Banning Tick Tock no matter how stupid the decision in the end was. Just proves it.

Whatever influence operation they're pushing domestically will largely be through TV and radio. Anything they do over the internet is going to meet far higher diminishing returns and require far more effort. They are absolutely still doing it. But they're spending much more time defending against it than employing it themselves.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sure, and I bet you think the NSA only spies on foreigners.

[–] Eldritch -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No. But thak you for the contribution of your strawman. You gonna try to actually respond to anything I said? Or just going to continue to damage your position?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The idea that the US gov't doesn't propagandize the US people is just so laughable and observably false.

The most popular non-sports video game series is US propaganda. The most funded Hollywood movies, Marvel et al, has the military literally approve the scripts beforehand.

Reddit's current Director of Policy worked the Atlantic Council and had no experience in social media before working for Reddit and purging it of popular leftist communities. After October 7th, they put out a message banning war footage or propaganda showing the Palestinian perspective.

Notice how Reddit is overwhelmingly pro-Ukraine, anti-russian, anti-Iranian, anti-chinese, and pro-zionist? Literally zero difference between what the major subreddits support and what the state department would want them to support.

[–] Eldritch -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The idea that the US gov't doesn't propagandize the US people is just so laughably and observably false.

I never said they didn't. But thank you for showing that you're not here in good faith and are just being disingenuous. It lets us all know not to bother talking to you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh fuck off with that, I read your post, the point you were making was that the US propaganda operations must not be bigger than other countries because it is "piss poor" if it exists. I gave you evidence of its existence and its effectiveness.

Respond to the core point, or any of the evidence that the US has bigger propaganda operations directed at the US than any other country could possibly manage and quit squirming.

[–] Eldritch -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wow I'm surprised you even admitted your dishonesty. Leninists usually don't do that ever. They'll die on the hill they'd made for themselves rather than adjust their beliefs or admit fault.

You could have just said that without making shit up and being dishonest. I know the reason you didn't. But you could have done that. The reason you didn't though. You did not give any evidence. You cited two correlations and called it a causation of a separate 3rd thing with no evidence. There is as much evidence to support my statement as there is the support yours. Make of that what you will. But don't go trying to convince anyone that you have any facts or evidence LOL.

Over the last century the United States has pushed a lot of propaganda at home and abroad that is a fact and I never disputed it. They aren't alone on that either. I just think it's hilarious that people think that just automatically translates into the online space. They've been shit at it. And on their back foot the whole time. The internet has poked more holes in it than everything before it. And they are far more vulnerable to foreign misinformation themselves then their modern contemporaries.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

When someone restates the points of your arguments, that's not dishonesty.

This is useless, nothing I say is going to get around your quibbling.

[–] gedaliyah 8 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Unpopular opinion: "the other side is just bots" is the new "the other side is just paid protestors."

Bot warfare is a very real and very serious form of information warfare but the idea that any particular political actor is using it disproportionately is pretty difficult to prove. This article, for example, identifies a study which found a third of internet traffic is made up of "bad bots." The study shows that the VAST majority of bad bot traffic is targeting Gaming (virtual currency farming), IT (DDoS), and Data Scraping, with propaganda bots making up less than 2%.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I checked the report, but it seems at no point it seems to clarify what they consider "bot traffic". Is it measured in api calls, page views, or bytes? Generally the term traffic is meant as raw data transported, but in that context those numbers make no sense.

For example, one of the biggest traffic consumers in the Internet is video streaming. There's no way in hell that half, or even a tenth, of that data is fake - it would simply cost too much to waste it on bots. Both for the bot owners as well as the streaming providers.

This level of vagueness and lack of transparency (what do the numbers mean, and where do they come from) does not fill me with confidence on this report.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

One quibble: it ain't new. I've been accused of being a bot on /r/conspiracy for well over a decade.

But my response has long since been the same: does it matter? Whether I'm a bot has absolutely zero bearing on the truth of what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong, we should definitely do something to curb botting, but I agree with you: if you find yourself using it as a reason to dismiss an argument you're just relying on a garbage ad hominem.

[–] Eldritch 4 points 1 month ago

I'd say it's unpopular because we have a lot of evidence to the contrary. We know for a fact that a large amount of traffic on Twitter and other social media sites are bots. We know for a fact that many political actors are paid. The problem is the people complaining about it most tend to be the ones who use them the most. Casting aspersions against those who don't. All in an effort to confuse and muddy the waters so no one questions their use.

The same for fake news. People crying about the most are the ones who put out the most. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even if the accusations are often false

Realistically any group would be foolish not to take advantage of something like Bots or AI to help Drive their message. Even if it's true.

We should just never take anyone screaming accusations at face value though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Nice try, propaganda bot.

[–] givesomefucks 2 points 1 month ago

Unpopular opinion: “the other side is just bots” is the new “the other side is just paid protestors.”

That's literally what's happening here...

They use to pay people thru an app to do this, now they use bots...

Like, I got called a racist once for telling another white employee that if they wanted the admin leave for an office holiday party, they had to stay at work till it started.

That obviously doesn't make me a racist, but if you put on an Obama mask and started making monkey noises... That's still racist, even tho that old guy called me racist for not letting him leave before the holiday party started.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, bots are more humane

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

you obviously didn't talk to Tay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(chatbot)

[–] SomeGuy69 1 points 1 month ago

So many people and politicians are falling for bots already. I think it's too late, because at the same time most lost the will to care. If no one cares, things get worse.