this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023

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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/lemmyshitpost

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[–] Zoldyck 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm pro-NATO and against all dictators and autocrats. We are not the same.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Can NATO ever get rid of its own dictators and autocrats? Dunno but it wouldn't be as bad if it could

[–] Zoldyck 8 points 1 year ago

That would be amazing and I hope it'll happen. Unfortunately this will probably take years.

[–] Ab_intra 7 points 1 year ago

There is no process for this.

[–] RexRegum 7 points 1 year ago

Turkey was soooo close, now I’ve lost all hope for them

I don’t think Hungary will get rid of that fucker anytime soon either

[–] spacesweedkid27 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Call it democracy, but in reality it's just lobbyism.

Especially in Germany and in the US.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Germany and the US are very different.

[–] Ab_intra 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There is no prosses of kicking a country our if that's what you're thinking. The only part of the treaties that allow a member to leave is if they leave and give a years notice. But it's not possible at this time for a vote on kicking a country out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah it was a rhetorical question

[+] [email protected] -9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No different from a tankie then. They also have excuses for their preferred governments' atrocities. If you think "dictators and autocrats" are the only evil that exist in the world, I have some bad news for you.

[–] Tar_alcaran 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, the suckage of, say, Germany or the Netherlands being less nice to refugees and farm animals is exactly the same as Russia and China actively committing genocide right now.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah let's conveniently forget about the agent orange and the toppling of governments to install dictators

[–] Tar_alcaran 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not. The both sucked in the past. But let me repeat:

Russia is committing genocide. Right now. China is committing genocide. Right now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My country is a military dictatorship right now at least in part because the US supported the overthrow of the democratically elected leader.

And just to be clear, I'm not comparing who is "worse". I understand that a genocide kind of takes the cake there if you really want to have a pissing contest about it. But the OP above you said that they were "pro-NATO", which in my book means they're a shit person.

[–] Zoldyck 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not a shit person, but thanks. Without NATO Europe would have been a huge mess

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah that was uncalled for my bad, and I do understand what you mean about Europe. But while the US is helping Europe, it's actively fucking the rest of us over, with European countries' help. So that's great for you, but being pro-NATO can only be seen as extremely selfish at best.

[–] Zoldyck 4 points 1 year ago

It's ok. Just to add: I wish the whole world would live in peace, and I wish organisations like NATO wouldn't be nessesary.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

They used to practically run the place, is why they're seething so damn hard.

Before the API comedown, the entire All page on most instances was their horseshit.

Thank you all for freeing us from Reddit (and Mastodon).

[+] SolanumChillEse -25 points 1 year ago (6 children)

When was the last time China invaded anyone? Including China here is a baseless equivocation and basically yellow scare nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

Hong Kong...like, as we speak.

[–] RexRegum 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yellow scare sounds like a very racist term
Nukes

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

China is a superpower, nuke-holder
China failed and still fails to condemn russia's actions and still see russia as their partner.
Communist countries stick together
China is the only superpower not involved with the current war that remains aggressive towards NATO/US
China has now completely took over Hong-Kong
And they're openly planning to do the same with Taiwan.

All these 6 combined is why china is worthy being next to russia in this meme.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hey hey let's not call China communist

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Let's not call Russia communist either lol. People who think that communism is still a threat in '23 are stuck in their cold war dystopianism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Russia and its history is the antithesis of communism

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You mean china that is lead by the communist party of china?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Good marketing, like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"

And both in practice something totally else

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Can you name a communist country that is radically different than china?

Because I can name 20 different democratic countries that are radically different than north korea, in turn not changing the meaning of "democracy".

An outlier doesn't mean the word changed its meaning.

[–] draneceusrex 4 points 1 year ago

I would argue that China has implemented a one-party fascist system, as the major ideal of communism is the economic side. They have embraced capitalism, be it under the shadow of the authoritarian government, it is capitalism none the less....

From my understanding, this is different then communist states such as Cuba and North Korea, as the large majority of their means of production are still 100% state owned.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's more like it's impossible to name how China could be communist. They'd need a revolution or something

I'd bet it's not the first on the list to have it's people take power

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm saying that china + soviet union has defined and continue to define what communism is. It's a word that's tainted forever.

Just like, for example, Christianity is defined by modern Christians.

[–] MetaCubed 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They define the cultural idea of communism

I hate being "that guy" tm but

The Soviet Union only briefly played with the idea of communism before committing to a single party socialist Republic. Modern day Russia is an autocratic dictatorship hiding in a Trenchcoat with "democracy" written on it.

China is again, a one party state which is, in truth, a Republic. China's historical dances with "communism" are rather similar to that of the USSR wherein an offshoot of marxist-leninism was implemented, modified and then used, ultimately landing closer... Again to a socialist Republic and now being effectively an autocratic dictatorship hiding in a Trenchcoat... Etc. Etc.

Neither country in my opinion ever reached the illusory "true communism". Maybe the west is right and it's a failed ideology, maybe "it just hasn't had the right leader yet" but ultimately, I believe most political ideologies have good bits that we can take notes on to improve the lives of others.

I apologize for any historical or political inaccuracies, wrote this with knowledge from the best of my memory while on the toilet at work

[–] draneceusrex 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree with the majority of what you are saying, but stating either the USSR or China had a foundation as a republic I would say is a gross mischaracterization, as supreme power within these states were held by the "communist" party, and not the people. Authoritarian regiems may play at calling themselves republics or democracies, but this should never be given credence.

[–] MetaCubed 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you for the correction! I agree it's far more accurate to call them authoritatian/autocratic regimes both now and then which is what I was trying to indicate by saying they were single party republics, but I suppose one should say what they mean and mean what they say.

[–] draneceusrex 3 points 1 year ago

And thank you for accepting criticism on the internet! I think I might really like being on lemmy! I do see where your thinking was there, though.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Some good info in here.

From what you've said, it looks like communism has a historical tendency to become an authoritarian dictatorship, in turn redefining what 'communism' means to most people?

[–] draneceusrex 4 points 1 year ago

I think authoritarian states typically get mislabeled very easily within modern times, especially by themselves. Some precedent I believe should exist for what I would loosely call "Stalinist" Communism, as that is what has been the most historical application of the term. But the modern Chinese state I believe would make Mao, Lenin, and even Stalin roll around in their graves by being considered Communist, and we should call a spade a spade. China is a fascist country now.

[–] MetaCubed 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I won't say you're wrong, after all, what do I know, I'm not a politician.

But the point of my comment is that the two countries which are most touted as examples of "communisms failings" were never really communist in the first place, regardless of what they labelled themselves as, they were single party socialist Republics. Both failed to eliminate class divides, neither had the workers control the means of production as they were still pawns of the government, failed to eliminate parties altogether, etc. Etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'd trust communists more to define what it is. Even nazis used the word socialism, so it's understandable that Soviet Union and China would follow the practice. We wouldn't believe a used car salesperson selling a Lada as a Lamborghini

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Why do you feel the need to defend China? They could have put any powerful country in there really, but there aren't many left when you have NATO and Russia already

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do we count EEZ encroachments in the Pacific? Only reason why China isn't as militarily adventurous as Russia right now, is because they know they're not ready yet. Not really yellow scare nonsense when China itself (Republic of) is concerned about this.

[–] SolanumChillEse -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do we count disputes over territorial waters as the same as war? Are you actually serious with this question?

The Spratly Islands are China’s Afghanistan?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It would be a bit more serious if the territories they claimed were Japanese, but they're not. China's not going to pick that fight, because they know they won't win. China has picked regions guarded by nations that have ships such as these guarding their territories.

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