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Why did more than 1,000 people die after police subdued them with force that isn't meant to kill? (apnews.com)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/news

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Carl Grant, a Vietnam veteran with dementia, wandered out of a hospital room to charge a cellphone he imagined he had. When he wouldn’t sit still, the police officer escorting Grant body-slammed him, ricocheting the patient’s head off the floor.

Taylor Ware, a former Marine and aspiring college student, walked the grassy grounds of an interstate rest stop trying to shake the voices in his head. After Ware ran from an officer, he was attacked by a police dog, jolted by a stun gun, pinned on the ground and injected with a sedative.

And Donald Ivy Jr., a former three-sport athlete, left an ATM alone one night when officers sized him up as suspicious and tried to detain him. Ivy took off, and police tackled and shocked him with a stun gun, belted him with batons and held him facedown.

Each man was unarmed. Each was not a threat to public safety. And despite that, each died after police used a kind of force that is not supposed to be deadly — and can be much easier to hide than the blast of an officer’s gun.

Every day, police rely on common tactics that, unlike guns, are meant to stop people without killing them, such as physical holds, Tasers and body blows. But when misused, these tactics can still end in death — as happened with George Floyd in 2020, sparking a national reckoning over policing. And while that encounter was caught on video, capturing Floyd’s last words of “I can’t breathe,” many others throughout the United States have escaped notice.

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[–] [email protected] 91 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Also, why is all harm short of killing someone considered acceptable when police do it?

[–] [email protected] 52 points 7 months ago

Yup. The average person would be charged, but qualified immunity means these assholes have carte blanche to murder at will.

As always, ACAB.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A lot of statistics about dangers in society seem to be entirely centred around deaths. Which is understandable of course, but underplays the many other harmful outcomes that can occur short of that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

You could argue very convincingly that some non-fatal injuries lead to a fate worse than death.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Even killing someone is only occasionally punished.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The idea is to offload violence from the society to the police (to give lawful monopoly on violence to the police). The alternative is wild west where everyone can do policing/violence as they see fit.
Granted that the policing should always be scrutinized and improved as needed, having completely "defund police" is not something we want to do.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The idea is to offload violence from the society to the police

My point is that conferring such enormous authority and power without enormous responsibility and accountability (and careful selection and training) is a mistake.

The alternative is wild west where everyone can do policing/violence as they see fit.

I'm 99% certain there are other possibilities in between the two extremes.

having completely “defund police” is not something we want to do.

As I understand it, the "defund the police" movement is not about abolishing police. (And is a bit off topic, so I'll save that discussion for another time.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

May be you think “defund police” is actually train police or create additional department of people who can deal with things mentally ill (both of it costs money, the opposite of “defund”) but I bet most of the people do not think so, and treat “defund police” and ACAB exactly as it sounds.

In any case I have answers a very specific question in my previous post.

[–] rockSlayer 31 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Daily reminder: ACAB

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

PEB: Policing Enables Bastards

PEB allows for one (out of 700k cops in the US) or more e.g. trans BIPOC officers to try to be the change from the inside without insulting them in the meantime.

Could be a stupid plan (e.g. if that approach is impossible). But a stupid person isn’t necessarily a bastard.

Also PEB considers it takes a while to fire whistleblower/“good” cops, and similarly doesn’t insult them during their firing process (insult to injury).

…am I being too literal with the word “All”?

[–] xantoxis 28 points 7 months ago

We can talk all day about lack of training or inability to de-escalate but at the end of the day those people died because a cop wanted them dead. The problem is the cops.

[–] MadMonkey 25 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Grateful to be living in a country where police don't even carry firearms regularly - New Zealand

[+] [email protected] -39 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Before edit, the comment to which I was replying was, "Who gives a fuck about New Zealand." authored by archlinuxforever, an unoriginal troll.

=========

I do. As an American, I look up to their example.

I hope one day my country will advance to their standards of law enforcement.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The internet has given us the unique experience of "playing with" mentally ill people like archlinuxforever, what a time to be alive.

Born too late to sail the seas, born too early to sail the stars, born just in time to surf troll back hair.

[–] Fuckfuckmyfuckingass 10 points 7 months ago

"National reckoning on policing" MY FUCKING ASS. I will never understand people who think just cuz it was on the news more than a week that some great change came of it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Acab motherfuckers