this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024
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Baldur’s Gate 3 lead says Wizards of the Coast “is not to blame” for new direction (www.pcgamesn.com)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] givesomefucks 94 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I mean, why wouldn't they go back to their own IP they have 100% control over?

The chance to make BG3 was obviously worth it, but Larian doesn't need DnD to make video games.

And honestly I'm happy they're not making bg4 next. But I hope a decade from now they do. These games aren't CoD, we dont need to crank out sequels immediately.

[–] Anticorp 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't have bought BG3 if it weren't for D&D, but you're right, after how awesome that game was, I'll definitely buy whatever they make next.

[–] givesomefucks 18 points 7 months ago (3 children)

The Divinity games they made before this were wildly popular and have a lot of the same things that made bg3 popular.

If you have played Divinity 2 yeah, scoop it up on the next sale

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's worth clarifying that it's the Divinity: Original Sin games that are similar style CRPGs, and I'm assuming you mean Original Sin 2.

There is a game called Divinity 2, but it's wildly different (I still love it though)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Divinity 2 is completely awesome. The humor is just 👌 Original Sin 2 is just amazing.

[–] million 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I haven't played a lot of Divinity but I will say the DnD character creator is much more interesting to me then the skill system in Divinity. I don't know if Divinity's skill systems gets better as it goes, but BG3 starts out with a lot of really interesting classes and choices.

[–] givesomefucks 2 points 7 months ago

It's been a while, but I'd say Divinity is even deeper from memory.

DND seems like a lot of choices because you need to decide which class/subclass your take, and while you can multi class, it gets real confusing.

In Divinity everyone levels up the same and gets the same amount of upgrade points, you can just do whatever.

You don't need to min/max multiclass to make sure you're maximizing feats or crazy stuff. You just use your points to get what you want.

So, in ways simpler, but in other ways more complex.

DnD locks them down, which may be why they're moving away from it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Speaking of it, both Original Sin 1 and 2 are currently on sale on GOG, super cheap:

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I bought BG3 because Larian was doing it. I absolutely loved the Divinity games and knew they made quality products. It was cool to see a D&D game done so well but that was not the main selling point. I do hope that they revisit D&D one day to do a Ravenloft setting but I’m probably just dreaming.

[–] Buddahriffic 2 points 7 months ago

Hell, CoD would probably also be a better franchise if there weren't new versions so often.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

I mean, why wouldn’t they go back to their own IP they have 100% control over?

A smart company would acknowledge that they needed the outside expertise to be so successful and not shoot themselves in the foot by assuming they wil get the same results in house. [Edit: I am saying WotC needs to acknowledge they need Larian's expertise]

I also like it when they let a game of this scooe with a lot of replayability stick around for years before cranking out the next one. That gives time for replays to experience the alternate choices and for modding to be added so the community can expand as well.

Edit: apparently I read this backwards as WotC taking 100% of their DnD Ip back from Larian. Probably misread it so due to the context of WotC taking control over the desktop setting.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They piggybacked off the success of dos2 which was a better game anyways. Sure, theyll lose the dnd fans that play solely for the familiar IP, but theyve gained enough name recognition to be massively successful on their own. Just keep making good games like From Soft & that's all they need.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I disagree that dos2 was better I think bg3 was much more intricate with skills abilities and playstyles than dos2 was

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Agree. DOS' elemental surface effects was cool, but having to deal with it all the time got old. Even more so with necrofire. I'm really hoping DOS3 learn something from BG3's more conservative usage of surface effects.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You mean they need WotC's expertise to handle D&D 5E properly? Or to make a good game?

As far as the former... I think that the partnership was a major factor in BG3's success, but I expect it has more to do with the D&D brand and BG nostalgia, than any virtues of the 5E system. Maybe WotC's contributions to worldbuilding and lore helped... Larian are of course good at that in their own right, but there's a whole Forgotten Realms canon to navigate. (I don't actually know what WotC contributed in that regard, mind you)

In the case of the latter... The Divinity system is pretty heckin good, and in many ways a better CRPG system than any edition of D&D. Larian ARE experts at making really solid CRPGs, after all. The Divinity series is perhaps the most successful ever, maybe now behind BG3... So returning to their own IP would not be shooting themselves in the foot by any stretch, IMO. More like trading one kind of overwhelming success for a different kind of overwhelming success.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I read it as WotC taking back their IP and was saying WotC did not recognize that they needed Larian's expertise. So, opposite of that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Oh. I think OP meant Larian returning to their own IP (maybe Divinity). AFAICT, it was Larian's decision to not continue with the D&D IP, not WotC taking it back. But I might have that wrong.

Just saw your edits-- I see what's going on now :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

WotC were the ones who needed to contract an outside developer. Larian obviously needed their help to develop a D&D game specifically to get the details right, but they're quite capable of making a good game without them, that's how they got the licence in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That is what I was saying, guess I read the OP wrong.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

No worries, happens to everyone on occasion.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What outside expertise? Hasbro contributed nothing except the IP, and the team at Hasbro that actually worked on BG3 has all been laid off anyway.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Hasbro needed Larian's expertise.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Right, makes more sense with your edits

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I shouldn't responded to a post that didn't name who was who with a reply that didn't name who was who.

I thought WotC was the one who dropped Larian, not the other way around.

[–] GrymEdm 29 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Swen describes how relieved his team was that they weren't going to be doing more Baldur's Gate, and even in BG3 development they talked about the difficulties of making 5E DnD work in a video game past 12th level. Larian clearly gave all they had for 6 years of development and they didn't chop it into DLC the way a lot of studios would have. In my mind it's like BG3 launched in "Game of the Year Complete Edition" with all DLC included.

Part of what made BG3 special was how excited the team was about working on it. I'm actually happy to hear they aren't going to try and force more content. I'm looking forward to seeing what they make with the ideas they're excited about next.

[–] givesomefucks 14 points 7 months ago

I mean, a lot of pc players bought it when it was just act 1.

I got more enjoyment playing that over and over than I did all of Diablo IV, so it was more like one huge DLC for us just getting the rest of the game.

I could 100% see some other studios making act 1 the base game then selling each next act as DLC.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

the difficulties of making 5E DnD work in a video game past 12th level.

Making the tabletop game work past 12th level is a slog too!

Larian did a great job of making levels 1-12 work better in a video game than they do on a tabletop, and I say that having enjoyed playing on the tabletop when 5e was released. BG3 got the group back together after I got a bit burnt out DMing a tabletop campaign.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Difficulties of making 5e DnD work in a video game beyond 12th level

BG3 might have missed the mark for me in the end, but God Damn do I feel that one. Full respect to them for managing to make such a good game even when working from such a flawed base

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago

While larian was always respected by the crpg community, BG3 brought them to such a wide audience that whatever they make next is all but guaranteed to be popular. They don't need the D&D IP anymore, and I can't wait to see what they come up with next.