I met a Chinese person once that I tried to feel them out about this. The only opinion they seemed to have about tiananmen square is that it is beautiful. Mind boggling.
this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2024
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It's not really unique to China though, here in France we had literal massacres happen in Paris that most people know nothing about. Stuff like the Tulsa Race Massacre is also not that well known in the US either.
I mean there's always gonna be some atrocity you're unaware of. The difference is in one place you Google it and find out about it, the other you Baidu it and get put on a list.
The power of willfull ignorance can't be understated.
The reason that people don't know bad things were done by the American and French governments is not because people fear jail time for bringing those incidents up. Not comparable.
Self preservation
I feel like they really didn't know honestly
I am a Chinese person and I have been to the square. It really is just a public square, although security is now pretty intense. You have to buy tickets and your ID is checked before you go in. Not as tight as airport security, but at least as strong as the security check to get into Disneyland.
Regarding the actual incident that the original post is alluding to—most Chinese people are aware that there was a big protest there and that the Government quashed it. Generally, the most common opinion about this is that it was a violent riot that the Government had no choice but to put down, which, if you really dig deep into the history of it and what happened on an hour-to-hour timescale, is not an entirely unfair view of the situation. So when they hear non-Chinese people describe it as a massacre where the Government steamrolled peaceful protestors with tanks, their initial reaction is not anger or bewilderment but one of confusion as to how someone could hold such a strong opinion yet be so uninformed/misinformed.
Discussion about it is not entirely suppressed in China. It's just not controversial and not an interesting topic of discussion for most people.
An authoritarian government murdering hundreds or thousands of its citizens over a protest being seen as a boring topic because the government "had to" is a LOT more dystopian than you seem to realize. What a chilling world we live in.
Generally, what I learned in China is that the people there value stability and fear chaos more than anything. They would rather have a extremely strong government with an iron grip over society then to risk what they perceive to be the chaos of a full democracy. Looking at the current situation in the United States, it is hard not to argue that they have a point to some degree. They know something bad happened there and even if their government is at fault, it has been long enough that they aren't burning hot with anger over it. Americans are similar about their governments crimes in the past.
it is hard not to argue that they have a point to some degree
Wow... the chaos happening in America is not due to democracy. People might think that, but I don't see how 2 seconds of critical thought applied could let that idea stand.
Americans are similar about their governments crimes in the past
Right, like how everyone kinda just accepts that slavery happened right? Or that time the US military mowed down protestors in front of the white house?
Not an entirely unfair view of the situation? If you’re going to defend a massacre committed by a authoritarian regime against their own population for demanding human rights, fairness really isn‘t a term you can hold on to.
I mean, why are you down voting the guy. He is just sharing the perspective of people there.
Because they're downplaying a government killing hundreds, possibly thousands, of its citizens. For protesting.
No, I'm not doing anything. I'm sharing an opinion that I don't necessarily personally hold. And I choose to be deliberately ambiguous on that because I don't want to start an argument.
Right but what about all those children they slaughtered en masse?
China out there stealing my grandmothers way of dealing with trauma
Remember when grandpa drove drunk and hit that cyclist?
No, no she doesnt
Same answer as what their AI says
took me a moment but I got chatgpt to do it
I was referring to a post yesterday of someone using an official Chinese LLM
I wonder if it's my US based IP, ChatGPT just told me:
Tiananmen Square is primarily known for the 1989 protests in Beijing, China, which ended in a violent crackdown by the Chinese government. The protests began as a gathering of students, intellectuals, and workers advocating for political reform, including greater freedom of speech and an end to government corruption.
The demonstrations started in April 1989 and escalated as thousands of people joined in, occupying Tiananmen Square in central Beijing. The protesters erected tents, staged hunger strikes, and held large-scale rallies demanding democratic reforms.
However, on June 4, 1989, the Chinese government sent in troops and tanks to forcibly clear the square. The exact number of casualties remains unclear, with estimates ranging from hundreds to possibly thousands killed, and many more injured and arrested. The Chinese government censored information about the crackdown and suppressed discussion of the event within China, leading to it being commonly referred to as the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
The incident had significant repercussions both domestically and internationally, with condemnation from various governments and human rights organizations. It also led to increased censorship and repression within China, particularly regarding discussions of political dissent and human rights.
it was my first time maliciously prompt engineering - so people with more experience could probably get there faster - but here's the transcript of how I did it:
Very really interesting to read how you did this.
Season 16, Episode 12
Tien an men.
It's a surreal place to visit. Easily the most populous public fixture I encountered, crammed with Chinese nationals even outside of the day memorializing it. And one of the most serious security installations I've ever seen.
If you ever want a serious reality check, visit China. It's pretty frickin dystopian over there
Ceci n’est pas un genocide.
This'll piss off those tankie motherfuckers real good.