this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
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Once again, this is an actual question; and I'm hoping to broaden my horizons and have a good conversation or two. I'm relatively new to commie subs, still trying to read political theory to figure out which one I like the most, so this might come off as uneducated. But why am I seeing so many positive posts about Stalin, followed by some comments that boil down to "Stalin was good, if you think he wasn't, that's just western propaganda" I'm thinking of the post that mentioned the 1921 Soviet Famine as a specific example. I know that Stalin didn't create the famine, it was a byproduct of almost a decade of war, unrest, and a ton of other factors. But Stalin did do some bad shit. Things like sending 14 million people to gulags to work as slave labor, and killing millions more in his purges. I would argue that he used communism to become an authoritarian. Similar to how Putin is ruling now, stuffing ballot boxes, starting wars, and pushing propaganda. (I realize that we get pushed propaganda, too in the form of faux news, MSNBC, and most media outlets. I don't wish to have a discussion that boils down to "we do it too, you just don't see it")

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

14 million gulags πŸ’€ was there anyone left in the USSR after Stalin imprisoned them all???

Do you know how absurd the logistics would be for the imprisonment of 14 million people???

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To put this into context, the United States imprisons about 4.3% of it's population and represents 20% of the global prison population... It's like 2ish million people in American prisons.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Well I'm gonna hold on to this statistic for later use. The absurdity of 14 million being imprisoned is enough that is should stand on it's own but maybe the direct comparison to the US prison system might drill it home a bit more.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

It's funny how these people can't realize how absurd their myths about communism are. The myth about Stalin arresting people who were first to stop applauding him after a speech is one of my favorites.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Regarding the USSR:

  • Where did you read that 14 million people were sent to prisons as slave labour in the USSR?
  • Where did you read that millions of people were killed in purges in the USSR?
  • Where did you read that the USSR didn't have collective leadership, and that Stalin had ultimate authority?


Regarding modern Russia:

  • Saying "Putin is ruling" is a very liberal standpoint. He is a president, not a monarch.
  • Where did you read that Putin's party is interfering with elections? It's entirely possible considering it's a capitalist country and they don't want to lose to the KPRF, but it's still important to be skeptical of sources, particularly those with a bad track record.
  • Russia has not started any war. In Ukraine, they intervened in and escalated a nearly decade-long civil war ignited by the NATO coup in 2014. The war with Georgia was initiated by Georgia. The war in Syria was started by imperialists, and Russia joined by the Syrian government's invitation.


Communists are materialists. If capitalist countries make claims about socialist countries without evidence, the default assumption should be that those claims are either entirely untrue or massively inflated. That doesn't mean they're always false, but you wouldn't trust a habitual liar to suddenly tell the truth. There is no way to "prove" if or how a historical event happened, and Amerikan propaganda is extremely effective despite a severe lack of convincing evidence.

[–] kmkz_ninja -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Russia has not started any war. In Ukraine, they intervened in and escalated a nearly decade-long civil war ignited by the NATO coup in 2014"

So this is one of those communities. I forgot the part where Ukraine requested Russia to invade. Or the part where intervening in another country's political affairs was a thing that neither Russia nor NATO have ever done.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Russia, DPR, LPR, and Ukraine signed a treaty, and the treaty was broken, the DPR and LPR requested aid

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As other have pointed out those numbers are way off but also i think its worth pointing out that Stalin didnt invent gulags (or political purges) it was a long standing system by then fuck Lenin was sent to one before the revolution, he and many other people in positions of power in the early USSR just used the tools they knew and were available.I think there are a lot of situations where socialists in the past have done things that are wrong but only in the sense of they should have been better rather than merely the same as capitalist and thats just a fucked way of thinking because they WERE better in so many other places. Also no one is saying Stalin was literally flawless but compared to what he is accused of he might as well be.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The numbers of people executed or gulaged are widely exaggerated. For the Great Purge, he and Molotov set a maximum of 72,950 executions and 186,500 prison sentences. At the peak of the gulags, only 2.4% of the population was imprisoned (less than the percentage imprisoned in the US: 2.8%), and most were common criminals instead of political prisoners. When Khrushchev released many of them after Stalin's death, most committed new crimes and got sent back to prison.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Comrade, do you by any chance have sources for this? Always trying to look for them, but most if not all search engines are biased or straight up empirialistic.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s worse than you think... As a result of Stalin's purges and famine, only communists remained in Russia. As soon as he finished killing everyone, he started running super fast and kicked a baby in the face like a football for no apparent reason...I don't understand...Like he shouldn't have done this.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

That's without even mentioning the big grain spoon, smh

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's also worth noting that we don't support everything Stalin and the soviets did, necessarily.

To my understanding, the point is to acknowledge the reasoning behind the actions and understand the errors.

This is a video from yesterday about this very topic: https://youtu.be/pDSZRkhynXU

I'm also not the most knowledgeable person here, so take my understanding with a few grains of salt.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's also worth noting that we don't support everything Stalin and the soviets did, necessarily.

There's two fronts. I'll happily talk about Stalin's mistakes with comrades, but if I get a whiff of liberal I'll shut down and fully support the USSR.

Stalin wasn't perfect, but he was better than any U$ political figure by several orders of magnitude.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Strong agree!

I didn't mean we open up our internal concerns to give random libs any ammo out there.

The mistakes are for us to learn from and build the next.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get that, but this was also meant as an actual question, it's nice to see some of these posts direct me to better information while explaining what's wrong with the information and sources I have. I live in the US, so it's hard to not only find some neutral sources, but also figure out which ones are propaganda for either side, and which ones aren't without knowing where to start. Some of the replies on this have been extremely informative and a great eye opening experience, while others (I'm guessing) assume that I'm just another liberal trying to attack communism. Which is wrong, I'm just a new tankie with outdated and wrong information trying to understand this community a bit more.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It gets difficult when many of the new, sincere, questions look identical to the troll posting.

That's not a mark against you, really, that's just the environment we're all working with here.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Related, but does anyone know how much truth their is to the idea that Vavilov was sent to the gulags because of his opposition to Lashekoism?

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