this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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Shocker. People don’t want to pay $40k + to commute to work.
A lot of people want a reasonably priced car that can commute, have enough range for something fun on the weekend, and have a stereo that isn’t total shit.
But the rub here is that it'll be like a new Walmart opening in your town. Before too long everyone is shopping at Walmart and all the small local businesses shut down because they can't compete with the prices and purchasing power of one of the largest corporations in the world.
Once that happens, all those workers get jobs at Walmart and then spend 80% of their paycheck buying products from Walmart. This leaves the town poor as a majority of the money circulating around gets sent out to Bentonville Arkansas where it goes into the Walton's bank accounts to be used to hire more lawyers to get them out of yet another vehicular manslaughter charge.
This shit is how the US wound up like we are today with rampant homelessness and shit wages, but all people care about are seeing those low prices on the store shelves.
But for the most part are American cars bringing that much more value for the price? If the average American car lasted 250,000 miles with little maintenance, maybe that would be worth the price.
BYD and other Chinese manufacturers are only able to sell at these low prices because the government is paying a portion of the manufacturing costs which isn't sustainable long term. What will happen is that they'll continue to subsidize them until they put a bunch of competitors out of business and then end the subsidies. Their prices will shoot up, and we'll be right back in the same situation we are now with high purchase prices. The only difference is that a lot of American manufacturing (union) jobs will have disappeared because of it.
The US government can and should be directly financing mining and making lithium batteries. There's enough lithium and cobalt scattered around the world to not give China full control over the price. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Until a more energy-dense battery chemistry goes mainstream: lithium is our only option to stop burning (some) oil. Batteries needs to be fully embraced regardless of who's currently setup to profit. China just thought ahead and the US wants to throw a tantrum.
It is. My employer is making bank on it right now.
Great but this had nothing to do with selling cars with massive, unsustainable subsidies as the price of lithium is just one part of the cost to manufacture a car. Furthermore, their goal isn't to get more people into EVs. It's to increase power and influence by selling their product at prices so low, nobody can compete against them. Once the competition is gone, a monopoly forms, subsidies end, prices skyrocket, and ideas and innovation stagnate.
Your approach is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Who's going to develop a more energy dense, climate friendly solution if the entire market is controlled by a single entity?
The batteries are about half the cost of making an EV. A $30k car literally has $15k+ worth of batteries inside. The Chinese are prepared to produce batteries today. China will not be able to arbitrarily limit global supply in the future. Global lithium supply is not analogous to oil prices and OPEC.
Lithium ion batteries are not produced by 1 entity and the tech has been around a few decades. People are absolutely innovating better, more sustainable, and less toxic battery chemistry. Lithium is just the best option we have now.
You keep focusing on the lithium market while I'm speaking about the automotive market. If China makes EVs unprofitable for the rest of the market by selling them at an artificially low price, who is going to be left to build them once the dust settles?
In other words they are doing the exact same thing the US government is doing. Remember the stock swap?
I have no idea what you're referring to with "the stock swap."
The US government does provide subsidies for EVs, but it is different in that it doesn't solely apply to US companies or companies directly controlled by the US government and they aren't being used for cars sold in other nation's markets. Any player in the industry can receive them provided they meet the criteria which is why American, South Korean, Japanese, and various EU-based companies are currently receiving them.
2008 Stock swap with GM. Thanks for admitting the hypocrisy of everyone defending the big 3.
Big 3 shills: give me tax dollars
Also Big 3 shills: our competition gets tax dollars and it is unfair
The CEO of GM could personally blow me and I still won't give them a dollar.
I think this argument must have been written in 2008 because nobody here is defending the "big 3" and the "big 3" doesn't even exist anymore as Dodge/Chrysler is owned by a European company and Ford/GM manufacture most of their cars in Canada and Mexico. The most American vehicles these days are Tesla, Toyota and Honda. I even specifically pointed out that US EV subsidies apply to manufacturers from multiple countries...
If you think this is some sort of "gotcha," I have bad news for you.
Here have some taxpayer dollars, kiddo. Try not to spend your welfa--bailout all in one place. Remember it's a loan 😉
Lol did you have a stroke or something? You're just rambling about random nonsense now.
The cost of cars went up dramatically during this last period of greedflation. I'm not going to cry for the domestic car makers. They'll get a bunch of government money to continue being shitty.
No it's more like Aldi and Lidl coming and opening up next to the big supermarket of the town. The local shops have already been killed by Walmart or in my country Tesco. Aldi and Lidl come in and undercut the giant and skim off a portion of the trade, and a portion of the people work there instead. The big supermarket can't muscle them out because they're far bigger companies than they look.
I would love to have an Aldi nearby instead of whatever Kroger behemoth I'm stuck with.
Aldis is the reason I can barely tread water with all my part time jobs.
Sounds like capitalism isn't the most stable way to structure civilization.
I think we ended up with rampant homelessness because banks turned housing into an investment instead of asset and your local Karen made zoning laws to keep POC. Shit wages are also pretty simple to explain stock buybacks were allowed and encouraged allowing.
Also your comment feels like it is from 2003 you have to update your propaganda periodically.