this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
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Asklemmy
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The whole of Lemmy is, in general, severely under-moderated.
Part of it is personnel (being a moderator is a crappy job and we don’t have the people to do it) but it’s also ideological. A lot of people here believe that allowing disruptive speech is better than suppressing expression.
That’s a choice and we live with the consequences.
I mean, let's be clear: The choice lies with the users. If users want to allow disruptive speech (or what's worse), they can go to the instances/communities that allow that kind of speech. If not, they can go to other instances/communities that have stricter moderation.
You don't have to personally live with it - go somewhere else if you don't like where you are right now.
This place is like a black mirror episode. "It's okay, just block the Nazis and it's like they're not there terrorizing and indoctrinating others, bc I can't see it"
I don't mean each user needs to block people, I mean go to instances and communities that are well-moderated.
Sure but the outcome is the same. Just someone else clicking for you and your group at scale.
That matters a lot though. If users feel unwelcome and have to block lots of other people before they'll get a nice experience, they'll just leave. If instead, they are greeted with kindness and interesting stuff, then they'll stick around. It's not scalable to have every user block lots of users before they have a good experience.
No disagreement, that's true, it will help increase growth by reducing friction for new users. Also, that doesn't mitigate my thesis statement that we're wearing blinders while the evil infects and hurts others.
Yeah. Maybe if mods weren't constantly removing factual information as "disinformation", you'd have a point.
But again, you choose your mods. If you think your mods are being unreasonable, use other communities with better mods - or start your own community and become the better mod yourself.
It's a "this type of website" problem, not limited to one page or instance.
Hmm. Maybe? I'd like to think it's possible to do a website of this type without those problems. But I could be wrong I guess.
I have been spending relatively more time on Bluesky now you mention it. They way they do block propagation is just 😘👌
What is block propagation?
I’m not super sharp about the details, but if you block someone, by default other people don’t see their replies on your stuff. There may be more features but I’m not sure.
Anyway, it remains functional even when overrun with shitheads because not everyone needs to block everyone.
I see.
I feel like defederation is the tool for this on the Fediverse. But just to be clear, when I said "go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now" I didn't mean go away from the Fediverse, I just meant another community or instance basically.
I would argue that defederation is a completely fucking brain dead way to deal with bad faith users.
And the “fediverse” has no answers here.
How come? I mean if there is a concentration of bad faith users on an instance or maybe the instance attracts such types because it has no rules or directly encourages such behaviour, is it not good that other instances can choose not to interact with that instance?
Try being a bad faith actor for a week and see how much defederation affects you.
It’s just drama fuel that does nothing to improve the quality of discourse on the network because it’s trivially bypassed.
It only punishes users with permanent identities, that is good faith users. Trolls just move. They do it all the time anyway to evade blocks.
But isn't that the case on all platforms? How can you get around this? Could the Fediverse do better somehow?
Listen, it’s clear you have not given this much thought. That’s ok. But I feel I’m wasting my breath here.
Sorry, I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong or anything, I'm genuinely curious what you think. I'm curious if there's a way to do better. Sorry if I offended you.
You think moderators remove those comments? (/s)
Protip: by replying to a comment on many apps, you can see the content of the comment. This can be very useful.
You can also check the modlogs. They can be really revealing.
Yup! I had a comment removed from lemmy.ml because I said something nice about the USA. I had another comment removed because I said something not nice about CCP.
I had a comment there removed for claimed "disinformation". It explained that Russia has been in violation or broke multiple nuclear arms agreements. That the US did not renew the agreements because Russia already left them.
The whole topic was a circle jerk about America being the bad guy and dangerous for not renewing the agreements. Agreements Russia had already left and did not want to negotiate on. Pointing out the truth that Russia caused the agreements to collapse wasn't allowed.
Lemmy seems to have a lot of hard core communists as mods.
Could be part of the Chinese/Russian disinformation campaign, or just might be an idiot.
What did you say?
According to moderators, even using the word "CCP" makes you a racist orientalist Nazi.
If that sounds like the neolib tactic of calling all criticism of Israel (or even the Netanyahu regime) "antisemitic" that's because it is.
That's not what they said, though, and that's not what you said either. I understand wanting to make your case, but you understated what got removed and overstated the reaction, which was just a removed comment and a 1 day ban for Orientalism.
You didn't critique the CPC either, unless you think calling for death is critique.
If you stalked my comment history, then you're being extremely selective and disingenuous, or very lazy.
"Death to Amerikkka" is not a critique either. But it is allowed by moderators. Do you condemn that equally?
A political party is not a race.
Death to the CCP.
To quote @[email protected] : Reporter, please learn the difference between a people and a state.
Nah, I just checked the modlog against your name, I didn't stalk it.
I didn't say "Death to Amerikkka" is a critique, you said critiquing the CCP gets you removed, but you didn't critique the CPC as evidenced by the modlog. I think it was more cringe than anything.
So in worldnews, being cringe is bannable if it's against the CCP but not the US.
I also paraphrased an upvoted comment on this subreddit that calls people who call it the CCP a racist Nazi.
And you don't think orientalism (the real kind) is also racist? That's a weird nitpick you tried to employ.
No, I think trying to deliberately provoke mods is cringe.
Either way, you specifically equated racism to nazism, when I pointed out that you were specifically called racist, not a Nazi.
I do think you should call it the CPC, as calling it the CCP is Orientalist.
Because Chinese Communist Party is language that puts an emphasis on the ethnic background, whereas Communist Party of China puts an emphasis on it being a party of the PRC.
How is "Nazi" an ethnic background?
And official literature calls the CPC the CPC.
That’s enough trolling for today, which ironically was what this post was about.
Which one? There’s one on every instance.
The best one of course
I noticed somebody who wrote "death to amerikkka" was given official mod sanction (saying that it was a country not a people group) so I made the same comment about the CCP.
Comment removed. Banned.
Confirmed.
gatt dayum dogg shut the fuck up. amerikkka is the global hegimon who bombed tens o million and razed half the globe. china is already sanctioned to shit but still gives out $$$ to poor ass countries. bruv you on a crusade for western interests lmao "anarchost". i guess the US state department is anarchy now innit? LMFAOOOO
Yep! Imo it’s the only way to beat trolls. If you suppress it, your still giving it attention and publicity. Your also playing into their game that they will claim you sensor truth.
Imo if you tell someone: “yeah, come to lemmy, voice your opinion. We won’t ban you but if we mostly disagree and ignore, clearly your idea was not with its salt”.