this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024

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Nancy Pelosi’s Rant Against Cease-Fire Supporters Will Hurt Biden’s 2024 Campaign (www.thenation.com)

submitted 10 months ago by CollisionResistance to c/politics

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[–] OccamsTeapot 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is not the uplifting story you seem to think it is. Someone rung this poor random guy and made him evacuate his entire community under extreme time pressure, only to destroy all the infrastructure so they can never return.

Three buildings were destroyed. As Mahmoud watched the destruction, the man on the phone said three more buildings would be bombed and then the residents would be allowed to return.

But a change of orders came suddenly.

They would bomb the full row of apartment blocks on the eastern side of the street, Mahmoud recalls being told.

This was more than 20 tower blocks, and hundreds of homes.

"There were people we hadn't evacuated yet because there was no warning about those buildings. I told him, 'At least give us until morning, in night time, where will the people go?'

"The answer was, 'The orders have been received, and we will bomb all towers within two hours.'"

Mahmoud screamed at people to clear the area, running from block to block.

Residents describe chaotic scenes of adults shouting and children weeping. Some parents and children lost one another in the melee.

Despite the panic, Mahmoud stayed on the phone the whole time, trying his best to delay the bombing.

The voice on the other end of the phone continued, without emotion.

"He even told me, 'Take your time. I won't bomb unless you give me permission.'

"I said 'No, it's not my permission. I don't want you to bomb anything. If you want me to evacuate, I will evacuate for the safety of the people, but if you want to bomb, don't tell me you need my permission.

And towards the end:

Mahmoud and the man who called himself Daoud kept speaking until the streets went quiet. Then the calls abruptly stopped without any further instructions for the people of al-Zahra.

"They didn't tell us to go back to our homes, or to evacuate or leave the area. So people waited until noon, and then they started to move," Mahmoud says.

In the hours and days that followed, the community of al-Zahra, like many in Gaza, disbanded.

"Even for the people whose homes were still standing, there are no services left… the sewage systems are damaged, there is no bakery, there is no supermarket, there is no water, no electricity," Mahmoud says.

They didn't care about this man. They took everything he had apart from his actual life and he had done nothing wrong. You think it is a story of IDF benevolence but it is literally a war crime.

[+] JustZ -12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah no I read it, nor do I find it uplifting at all.

But it speaks for itself as evidence in refuting the claims people are making about indiscriminate bombing and intentionally targeting civilians. It's just not true, at least not any more than a handful of isolated war crimes. It's shitty but that's the reality of it.

Israel is and will likely continue to prosecute people responsible for war crimes.

Think they hold any war crimes trials in Gaza? No. The fact is that in Gaza the governing power will pay you well if you indiscriminately target a bunch of Israeli civilians, as they did on October 7.

The tunnels are forfiet now, as a matter of proportionate response and self defense. If Israel has to destroy several city blocks to get to whatever part of the tunnel system Hamas has dug underneath them, that's not Israel's fault. Hamas put them there. Hamas used them to launch terrorist attack after terrorist attack, decades of rocket attacks, decades of suicide bombings, and now mass shootings, all while actually indiscriminately targeting civilians. How does that go over in Gaza? Hamas is more popular than ever.

[–] OccamsTeapot 2 points 10 months ago

But it speaks for itself as evidence in refuting the claims people are making about indiscriminate bombing and intentionally targeting civilians.

They destroyed the whole civilian area. You know that intentionally destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime right?

Source

Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;

The dentist office is not a military objective just because there's a tunnel 20m below it.

More importantly, there are 26 THOUSAND dead Palestinians, mainly innocent civilians. If they are not intentionally targeting them they are the most careless and/or incompetent army in the world.

It's just not true, at least not any more than a handful of isolated war crimes. It's shitty but that's the reality of it.

Oh well that's ok then, just a "handful" of "isolated" war crimes 🤣