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"Just a few hundreds more people in concentration camps and thousands more deported, and we can finally stop the Republicans from imprisoning and deporting immigrants and refugees!"
Democrats having a normal one about human rights, eh?
Edit: This may be a good place to remind everyone that the people we're de facto targeting with these policies are people with indigenous roots. This can and should be interpreted through the lens of colonialism and our ongoing genocide against Native groups.
Edit 2: Oh boy I cannot believe I have to say this, but these people with indigenous roots are not limited to Mexico and Central America. Does anyone know anything about history here?? My God, I'd assume if one is going to comment that one would at least have the slightest idea what they're talking about.
Edit 3: And to the people who think it's some kinda "gotcha" to point out that I'm disengaging from people who are shit-deep in the anti-immigrant hysteria, you got me. Nearly half my family are immigrants, some of whom have been detained and/or deported by our racist border policy, and I live surrounded by batshit conservatives. So yes, this is a sensitive and personal issue to me. If I wanted to talk to people like that, I'd go to the gas station or bar. Lemmy is my opportunity to talk to people who at the bare minimum agree on certain fundamental ideals, an opportunity I don't have much in real life. I will block and report you for name calling or other uncivilized attacks on my character.
you're the hero we need
What, in the purview of an election year (and risk of putting someone obviously orders-of-magnitude worse for such people), with the right-wing border propaganda resonating with many voters, with GOP border states that don't actually want to work with Biden, and with a divided Congress, do you want Biden to do?
It's one thing to throw peanuts from the peanut gallery, but another to look at the pragmatic reality and actual viable options versus consequences.
Treating people's lives like political pawns in a campaign is NOT okay. Stop trying to normalize this shit.
Don't ever speak to me again. Enabling this shit is a horrible thing to do to people. Let's put you in a camp or send you into a violent situation and see how much you like it. "BuT iT's ElEcTiOn YeAr" I don't care
I say again since you're obviously deflecting: It’s one thing to throw peanuts from the peanut gallery, but another to look at the pragmatic reality and actual viable options versus consequences.
You can live with your idealistic pyrrhic victory while you naively reject the reality of the political consequences and put someone far worse in power. But you do you, buddy.
I wish we could be idealistic, but the reality is that too many people are under informed, under educated, or otherwise trained to blame the country's problems on minorities.
The idealists in this thread thinking "let's say the right thing now, let the bad guys take over, then we'll just have a little 'ol revolution" have their heads up their asses. They need to take a serious look at the middle east and their royals in golden palaces. That is the Republican end game.
People like them have no actual solution, they just like screaming that you're wrong while they're right.
It's almost like dealing with a MAGAt.
To have a solution, you first must have a problem. This isn't one. It's only a problem for racists.
Oh, how awfully convenient!
But true, it's better defined as a dilemma. The dichotomy between doing nothing because one's hands are tied, or investing in a move that gives you power to address it down the road.
... You know... By not handing the keys back to the real racist.
But some people don't think that many chess moves ahead, I guess.
Frankly it makes me wonder if they are. Unfortunately we know it's a common tactic for them to pretend they're leftist and wedge-drive to sow apathy.
Feel free to check my post history and you’ll see when I turned
How many genocide did Trump support and enable again?
Oh I don't know...
When you say you trust Putin's word over the consensus of your own intelligence agencies, I'd argue enabling Russia's genocide against Ukraine is one.
When you buddy up with the North Korean leader, you're at least endorsing the famine of their people.
When you undermine peace deals with Iran, you undermine regional stability indirectly leading to further deaths both domestically and externally.
... Though let's not forget that neither the UN nor ICJ has formally ruled on genocide charges.
And sure, let's just pretend you're not oversimplifying the situation in order to obviously wedge-drive all the while pretending Trump is some leader of global peace LOL.
So how many weapons did we send to ACTIVELY engage in genocide?
Trump was a fucking horrible person but he was way too fucking inept of a moron to pull off anything big.
Biden fucking tricked us all into thinking he was a fucking good guy.
Hell he tricked me pretty good.
Not sure but a reminder that Trump directly killed more civilians from US air strikes in the year of 2017 than Obama and Biden, combined. So there's that.
Trump may or may not be a moron, but his cabinet was not. From Richard Spencer to Bill Barr to Pompeo to Homan -- It was full of evil fucking psychopaths and if you're unfamiliar with Project 2025 you best familiarize yourself with it. It's no different than Bush Jr., and the neocons he was surrounded by.
Biden is in a tricky spot that I do not envy. While it's very pleasant to the brain to think in absolutes, there are major consequences to these decisions that can have major implications in the election ahead... Which again, we do not wish to hand the keys to someone who trusts the likes of Putin and kisses Netanyahu's ass just the same.
To Biden's credit his tone has shifted significantly on Israel, going from lockstep support to publicly calling Israel's attacks, "Indiscriminate Bombing." He's already denied them advanced military aid packages like Apache Helicopters, and has met with Netanyahu trying to force them to dial back the conflict. Calling it genocide publicly will do little substantively but to close the door to any diplomacy and influence Biden has with Netanyahu in the first place.
I am so grateful that he gave them slightly less weapons than they asked for.
It sure cancels out all the ones he did
Yeah well, just you wait for what fellow right-wing nationalist Trump -- who unlike Biden has not called for mitigating civilian casualties -- will give him. And let's not forget that Trump already vowed to not let any Palestinian refugees into America.
But yes, please proceed with this totally good faith argument totally not rooted in blatant false equivalence.
Calling me right wing nationalist won’t work when everyone can look at my post history and see exactly when I changed from supporting him to hating him.
It started with the railroad strike and completed when he enabled and supported the killing of thousands of innocent children and babies.
Fuck him and his support of this bullshit, fuck Hamas for starting it, and hopefully Netanyahu and his crewwill suffer being the only survivors of anyone they care about and have to live with the loneliness and guilt of being the only survivor when everyone else is dead.
Although he would probably just like it
Relax, I wasn't calling you a right wing nationalist, though you're excelling as a useful wedge-driving pawn for said right-wingers. I was calling Netanyahu and Trump right-wing nationalists.
Welcome to the world of reality and gray areas where it's probably more complicated than you care to comprehend. Be that as it may, Trump would undeniably be worse.
And no, it didn't start with Hamas lol. Laughable ignorance to history to believe this war began on October 7th.
I am speaking solely of the latest outbreak.
No one can deny Hamas started this one, they might have a leg to stand on if they had only attacked military targets, or even if they had immediately released the children, babies, foreigners, elderly, and infirm.
Things can be hectic in an operation, see the Hannibal directive for more information, but they continued to use innocent people as pawns on a game board.
They started this round.
How much suffering day in and day out, year in and year out does one take before they reach their breaking-point?
If we take the global outcry that Gaza is an "open-air prison," or ghettos and a result of Israeli annexation, siege/blockades, and collective punishment — how much of that can you take year after year before one breaks?
It's death by a thousand cuts or a breaking of a dam. Either way, radicalization does not just propagate out of thin-air.
And if they had taken legitimate military targets or released non military targets within the next day or two, it would be a different story.
They didn’t, they raided a music festival and kidnapped babies and children.
They took a legitimate reason and turned it illegitimate.
Freedom fighters don’t kidnap babies.
The allies killed over a million civilians in their campaign against the Axis during WW2 through brutal fire bombings and nuclear bombs of civilian cities. Welcome to the brutal reality of war where civilians have always been targeted.
All I heard was what about what about what about
If one can't distinguish Tu quoque from identifying a pattern and double-standards, then I suppose we're done here.
So then tell me why something that happened 80 years ago means that we should do the same today?
Tell me why kidnapping babies is ok now because of that
Straw-man — never claimed we should.
But two can play that game:
Tell me why committing the equivalent of 20 October 7ths in the number of civilians killed directly by Israel (half of whom being children) is okay because of something that happened last year?
See? We're in agreement.
It isn’t. Fuck Israel. They crossed the line even more than Hamas did by an order of magnitude.
Neither event is justified or even justifiable.
That doesn’t mean that Hamas didn’t turn a cold/lukewarm war into a hot one.
Do you think l am trying to defend Israel here?
Ok fair. I have some disagreements on how someone backed into a corner over an overwhelming force that continues to annex their land should respond, but yes I'd prefer neither event to have occurred.
Removed, rule 3:
"Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!"
Removed, rule 3:
"Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!"
Heard, and that's fair.
Removed, rule 3:
"Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!"
Yeah I admit I chuckled at this.
I got major, "Don't speak to me or my son ever again!" vibes lol.
Most of these people are not indigenous through coming from way, farther down south, and Central America and moving their way up through Mexico because of how bad it is where they’re from.
If you are going to do it do it right and tell everyone the w whole story