this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If we'd always been accounting for all the actual costs of cars, including externalities, most people would have never been able to afford them, we'd recognize them as the very costly luxeries they actually are, and not have completely dismantled our ability to live without them in every city except NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, and San Francisco.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You could say that about everything. If you would account for all actual cost no one would fly, eat steaks, own 2 TVs or change phones every 2 years either. We would buy things that last 10-20 years and replace them only when they are broken. As we used to...

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Slippery slope aside, I think reducing unnecessary consumerism would be beneficial for our most vuneral populations. There would be a lower barrier of entry into the economy and more resources would be available at a lower cost for people who cannot afford them

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

Oh, I wasn't making a slippery slope argument. I meant that this is what should happen. We exported most of the devastating impact on the environment and the terrible working conditions to developing countries so that we can enjoy tons of crap we don't really need. If things we buy would reflect the actual costs we would have to limit how much we consume. Of course no one would like it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well, it's a mixed bag. There have been absolutely incredible advances in efficiency that do enable a lot of things to genuinely be much cheaper and accessible than they used to be, but some of that is also just the ability to throw external costs on other people (climate change, for instance). This is why things like carbon taxes are so strongly supported by economists.

Steak, for instance, is hugely subsidized by how little farmers have to pay for water, along with other government benefits. Flying has environmental costs, but those are reasonably quantifiable and, per flight and per passenger, not that insane as far as I understand.

I do think consumer electronics are a bit of a different story though. Yes, cheap labor plays a huge role there, but those labor costs aren't completely divorced from reality; the fact of the matter is that east Asian labor is actually chap. Ocean shipping and modern production plants are insanely efficient, though again climate costs need to be captured.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But east Asian labour is cheap because of bad working conditions, weak workers' rights and no environmental protections.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Don't forget poverty wages and lower standards of living.

[–] TenderfootGungi 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Cars actually make more sense in low density areas. Farmers need to get around. Urban areas should rely mostly on public transportation.

[–] AA5B 1 points 11 months ago

Of course, but it’s all those in the middle where we need better options. US has just a handful of cities with decent transit, but every large city should be able to. Then there are all the medium cities built around using cars: transit should still be a better option but works better with concentrations of people

It should be reasonable for a majority of the population to have effective transit, even in the US

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Up until I got an EV I never thought about dollar per 100 km. On "fuel", I used to be near $20/100km for my premium powered midsize SUV.