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Sanders warns Biden: address working-class fears or risk losing to demogogue
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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Makes me wonder what might have happened if the DNC hadn't f**ked Bernie over, twice.
Yeah, the DNC f-ing unknowingly gave that blowhard dictator his platform.
Very explicitly knowingly *
*FTFY.
Democrats will suspend the constitution THEMSELVES before they go against our corporate overlords and run someone like Bernie.
Unknowingly? They would rather have Trump than Bernie ruining their two party corruption. The DNC won in 2016.
They didnt care. DNC would rather lose with Hillary/Biden then win with Bernie.
The DNC loves losing. Losing means they can endlessly fundraise and not have to actually govern!
I still remember trying to explain to someone back in my reddit days that many media sources played clips of people saying they are voting for Biden in the primaries because they believe Bernie would lose. The only places saying that were the same media sources.
Unfortunately, the owners of this country don't want that.
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Rich people would be getting richer slower and the world would be a better place.
Maybe he would have lost his aura because he wouldn't have had the means to do what he says should be done.
At this point Bernie's lost at least some of it; I can't disagree with those who've accused him of sheepdogging, although I think he was trying to do the best he could with what he had.
Sanders not burning his own party cost him much of his clout. Frankly they deserved it for what they did to him and his show of weakness backing the warhawk Clinton was awful to see from someone who usually has so much fire.
Bernie's moral code includes supporting his party's "democratic" ways, as anything else would be a coup in its own right.
Even if I believe he's off the mark in doing that, I admire him for it. It's rare to see these days.
Admirable? Blind slavery to a corrupt system? I fail to see what is admirable about not trying to fix a country but instead keeping corruption alive.
What alternative would you propose? Say what you will about Sanders, but he actually wants the Republic to last, imperfect though it may be. Apparently many of his critics prefer a politician who will throw a tantrum if things don't go his way and then try to bring down the whole nation. That reminds me of someone else.
What a brave man supporting genocide and imperialism. The empire must last a 1000 years and nobody should ever try to change it.
Your change involves kids in cages, dead immigrants in rivers, American military deployment in American cities, assassinated political opponents, and dead women in American hospitals. I think I prefer Joe Biden.
Just to be clear--I'm not a fan of the ongoing Palestinian genocide. It's reprehensible. But Biden didn't cause that. The US supports the state of Israel for complex geopolitical reasons that aren't that different from why it also supports other regimes that lack stirling human rights records, and those reasons date back nearly a hundred years. That's realpolitik, and you might not like how the diplomatic sausage is made. It's not pretty for the US, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but it's not pretty for other nations either. But guess what? If Bernie Sanders were president, or if Donald Trump were president, you know what would be different about America's foreign policy position re Israel? Not a goddamned thing. Because this is as good as it gets. It's a calculated diplomatic position. Not pretty, and not fun politically, but every alternative is as morally black or worse, and absolutely worse for US interests.
The US is an empire. It does empire things. Sometimes I don't like those things. But I live here. So yeah, 1000 years sounds nice. Certainly beats trying to kill the whole experiment in less than four. That's what the other guy wants. Personally, I'd rather keep it around to try to do some fixing.
But keep it coming with the hyperbole if it makes you feel righteous.
israel does everything you claim but worse.
Kids in cages? How about malnourished kids in cages but they're actively beaten up and tear gassed by the IDF.
Assasinating political opponents? How about blowing up their entire neighborhood.
Dead women in hospitals? How about blowing up the entire hospital. How about having kids getting their legs sawn off without anesthetics because they need to get them amputated from being bombed.
If you have to choose between Hitler and Stalin, maybe wake up to reality and stop abiding this insanity.
You're right. All of those things are happening, and they're despicable. The Israeli people should be marching in the streets, and Netanyahu should be tried as a war criminal.
I don't live in Israel. And in any event, we're talking about American domestic policy. The Israel state is an evil institution--like a lot of states--but the US interest in that part of the world means that the US is going to continue to give Israel its full-throated support, and it doesn't really matter which party is in control of the US government. That one party is using that support to attack the other is just political theater, and everyone who studies global politics knows it.
Godwin's maxim notwithstanding, the mention of Hitler and Stalin is actually a decent example: You realize Stalin was the US's ally in World War II, don't you? Sometimes nations don't get to choose desirable company. The US's reasons for supporting Israel may not be noble, but they're rational. More importantly, what's the alternative you'd prefer? The US should carpet bomb Israeli cities? let Russia have the Middle East (e.g., Syria)? or maybe just send a strongly worded letter? There isn't a more humanitarian alternative that doesn't have worse geopolitical consequences.
The point is to illustrate how both of those leaders are not figures that you want to lead your country.
Stalin was not just an ally, he was the guy that won WW2 by just throwing Russian bodies at the Germans. He was not exactly known for his human rights views though. He has books about his genocides
Technically it's not his own party since he's an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, but otherwise I know exactly what you mean.
Well progressives are to blame for their incessant whining that any candidate that is not 100% progressive is absolute shit. Progressives are bitching about PEOPLE while corporatists are controlling the narrative about ISSUES.
Progressives have been banging the drum for universal health care (an ISSUE) for years, so far with no luck -- (no) thanks to the corporatists.
And as for Israel (also an ISSUE), don't get me started...
The whole point is that progressives are getting CRUSHED by the corporatists because the whiners can’t stop eating their own.
Well yeah, because the corporatists control the purse strings.
Until progressives learn to play and win the messaging game, we’re wasting our time. But it has to start with positive messaging not negative messaging. Trumpists have that market cornered.
Again, messaging takes money, and that's controlled by the corporate wing of the party.
Progressives are more or less wasting their time if they don't leave the party.
It's not a messaging issue. Boomers are intentionally voting against progressives and leftists in primaries because boomers are selfish pieces of shit who enjoy fucking over anybody younger than 65 years old.
What on earth are you talking about? Progressives and leftists didn't lose the 2020 primaries due to infighting. Having multiple candidates running with similar perspectives is a sign of a healthy movement. I wanted Bernie but I would've happily supported others.
But Boomers couldn't resist the chance to vote against progressive and leftist efforts and since Biden was the only viable procorporate trash candidate they rallied around him.
Fuck the Boomers.