Feel free to peruse here... including medical studies like https://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/level-1-trauma-center-studies-dog-bite-injuries-2011-2022.pdf as an example showing that pit bulls historically occur more often and cause SIGNIFICANTLY more damage.

But right... The CDC and humane society disagree with me!

CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7236a6.htm Which doesn't break out by breed. But the numbers line up with other sources that HAVE broken out the breed. Showing that it's 71% during this time period pitbull.

And I couldn't give a fuck what the humane society says. They're not statisticians nor do they have they ever published any statistics on attacks. Feel free to put up though. I'll wait patiently.

[–] bustrpoindextr 6 points 10 months ago (6 children)

So I'm not the other user but I'll go ahead and help you out.

AVMA quick summary of all the problems with trying to blame a set of breeds: https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed

Study that shows breed doesn't impact behavior in any substantial way: https://www.aaas.org/news/dogs-breed-doesnt-determine-its-behavior#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20findings%2C%20breed,exclusive%20to%20any%20one%20breed. Basically a dog is a dog is a dog and the main indicator of how a dog is going to act is how it was raised.

Study shows that BSL doesn't work: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0208393

Meaning if you remove pitbulls and other "aggressive" dogs, people still end up in the hospital at the same rate from dog bites.

All this points to the simple fact that if you give an asshole a dog, that dog will be dangerous.

Also as an aside any claim to "per capita" with regards to dogs is baseless. There has not ever been a dog census nor would we reasonably be able to do one, so we can't make any claims about "this breed has a higher percentage of biters" or anything to that effect.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Also as an aside any claim to “per capita” with regards to dogs is baseless. There has not ever been a dog census nor would we reasonably be able to do one, so we can’t make any claims about “this breed has a higher percentage of biters” or anything to that effect.

Are you shitting me? https://financesonline.com/number-of-dogs-in-the-us/

You don't need to have a census to have a pretty damn good idea of how many there are. And you all keep telling me that I'm disingenuous.

https://www.aaas.org/news/dogs-breed-doesnt-determine-its-behavior#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20findings%2C%20breed,exclusive%20to%20any%20one%20breed

This is a persons representation of a study. Not the study. but it links to here (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0639) So if breed has nothing to do with anything. How come there's qualities organized by breed by the study? You can't claim that behaviors aren't affected by breed, then show me a study that shows a bunch of behaviors organized by breed. And you all keep telling me that I'm disingenuous.

Study shows that BSL doesn’t work: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0208393

Except this misses one big premise... Amount of cases can be exactly the same, but severity of each case can go down severely. Also amount of cases can be the same, but have less fatalities! Almost like your link and my link can co-exist.https://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/level-1-trauma-center-studies-dog-bite-injuries-2011-2022.pdf and no offense, but I'm okay with a world where there's less harm and death done.

[–] bustrpoindextr 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Okay, because I saw you're a fan of banpitbull subreddit.

I need to ask a very simple question. Do you care about actual safety, or do you just want pitbulls banned? Like what is your goal?

Because all science in the last 5 years states people, not pitbulls, are the problem. Globally. That's the issue.

If you actually want "less harm and death done" then you need to listen to the scientific experts and stop pushing for BSL, and instead push for things that move towards the goal of less harm and death.

But okay let's address the rest now

Are you shitting me? https://financesonline.com/number-of-dogs-in-the-us/

You don't need to have a census to have a pretty damn good idea of how many there are. And you all keep telling me that I'm disingenuous.

You say that and then the link you provided did not give me a very good idea about per capita of the breeds... I have no idea how many of any breed there are.

This is a persons representation of a study. Not the study. but it links to here (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0639) So if breed has nothing to do with anything. How come there's qualities organized by breed by the study? You can't claim that behaviors aren't affected by breed, then show me a study that shows a bunch of behaviors organized by breed. And you all keep telling me that I'm disingenuous.

You are being disingenuous... Less than 9% difference across all breeds. A dog is a dog is a dog. Some howl, some don't. Some are more active. A dog is a dog is a dog.

Except this misses one big premise... Amount of cases can be exactly the same, but severity of each case can go down severely. Also amount of cases can be the same, but have less fatalities!

Well it was counting hospitalizations... So it's safe to say we're only talking about severe ones..

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I need to ask a very simple question. Do you care about actual safety, or do you just want pitbulls banned? Like what is your goal?

Oh I would be okay with all large breeds (let's say over 50lbs. as being a start) being required licensing. But considering the specific damage caused by pitbulls I would love to see them go first if there's got to be a first. And "banned" in my case would be force spay/neuter and legalize breeding of them. I'm not a monster that wants to see a witch hunt to murder all currently existing pit bulls. I just want to see a breed that was bred for causing as much damage as possible in a fight not... Other large dogs being kept in a city apartment should also be illegalized as well IMO... but other breeds don't have the predilection to bite the way pit bulls do.

You say that and then the link you provided did not give me a very good idea about per capita of the breeds… I have no idea how many of any breed there are.

Because I was specifically addressing your "census" comment. I have no issue providing more information to a point if required. There's a few ways to infer population stats... https://www.pitbullinfo.org/pit-bulls-population.html has some for instance (DNA sites or veterinary data). Or you can grab stats from any number of dog rescues/pounds/etc... These stats won't ever be perfect singularly. But certainly good enough.

You are being disingenuous… Less than 9% difference across all breeds. A dog is a dog is a dog. Some howl, some don’t. Some are more active. A dog is a dog is a dog.

So in your mind... pitbulls are fine because there's only a 9% difference in breeds even though they make up 71% of all dog related deaths since 2011? You realize this isn't just a case of strictly bite numbers. You even pointed it out. Even if pitbulls are LESS likely to bite, but each instance of a bite causes significantly more damage that causes hospitalization/death... This is STILL A PROBLEM. I'd still like to point out that your own source STILL managed to organize the breeds even though it's only "9%"...

Well it was counting hospitalizations… So it’s safe to say we’re only talking about severe ones…

So instead of addressing the article I posted you ignore it? Again?

[–] bustrpoindextr 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well your article isn't a study, it's a literary review from a very biased source of a Colleen Lynn

In fact if you want to read up on your source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogsbite.org

You can see that she complains about science and ignores expert opinions in the field because they disagree with her.

It's very telling when her literary review comes to very different conclusions than actual scientists performing studies in the field.

[–] candybrie 4 points 10 months ago

The site's founder is also contemptuous of people in the relevant sciences, including those at the AVMA, the CDC, the Animal Behavior Society, etc. She refers to them as 'science whores,' which alone is enough to discredit her claims.