this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

But, it's interesting how he's so different from the "mage" of other fantasy / D&D.

For example, he uses a sword along with his staff. He's the most powerful mage, and yet he needs a sword?

Also, he doesn't seem to use any direct-damage magic. He doesn't throw fireballs, he doesn't cause enemies to be hit by lightning. He also doesn't directly create illusions. Most of what he does is very subtle. He claims he can read minds, he gives ponies greater stamina, he opens doors, he lights or extinguishes fires, but mostly for lighting not for damage.

[–] nyctre 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's partly because most of this stuff precedes modern fantasy media and also because Tolkien said that Gandalf isn't actually a wizard it's just that to him wizard was the closest word he could find to describe him. As back then wizard just meant very wise person, afaik. A more apt term for him nowadays would be "sage", I guess? Dunno. Also, Gandalf isn't human, he's a celestial being and he's not allowed(?), I think, to use the full extent of his powers. Either way, yeah.. the more I learn about Tolkien's work the more interesting it becomes.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, way back when, wizard just meant wise man (wise + -ard). The connotation with magic is centuries older than Tolkien, though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually, ard is a negative suffix, as in drunkard, sluggard, etc..

Wizard meant wise guy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually, that's where it comes from anyway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I meant actually as in fun fact, not correction, sorry.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

But, it's interesting that Gandalf inspired decades of mage / wizard characters who broadly shared common themes: using magic to do direct damage, not wearing armor, not using swords, being physically unimposing, often being old men, etc.

How different would modern fantasy and TTRPGs be if people had been inspired by different parts of Gandalf's character. Like, we might expect Wizards / Sages to lead an army's charge, despite not wearing armor or doing direct damage. A typical fantasy wizard / mage hangs back and lets the people in armor lead the charge. We might expect them to have incredible perception, seeing very clearly, sensing danger nearby, etc. A typical fantasy wizard / mage / sorcerer is focused inward and often the least perceptive one in a group. We might expect them to be physically fairly strong, at least enough to fight with a sword. We might expect them to be loners, rather than wanting to join adventuring parties. We might expect them to do mostly cleric-ey things like heal people, boost morale, strike fear into others, etc.

Instead, people adopted the physical appearance (minus the sword) and tacked on a lot of direct-damage magic. For TTRPGs that makes sense because you can't have a character who's both physically imposing, extremely charismatic, able to fight with a sword, and also capable of using magic. That's just too powerful for one character. But, I also can't think of many fantasy books or movies that have a strong, perceptive, brave sage/wizard character.

[–] PineRune 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually, he does turn pinecones into little fireballs in The Hobbit. At least in the book, I don't remember if that was in the movie. Nothing like the Fireball spell in D&D, though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Not to mention the fire magic used to burn and scare the goblins when they were captive of the goblin king.

The pinecones were pretty awesome at burning the wolves too the way it magically spread amongst them if they touched.

[–] Anamnesis 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's like this dude only knows prestidigitation, detect thoughts, and create fire. Gandalf level 1 wizard confirmed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I now kinda want to play a wizard who only uses cantrips for some convoluted reason

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

The reason could be that he's illiterate

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, it's obvious. He isn't a humanoid spellcaster, he's a celestial. Quite literally. In this book's frustrating diversion from established D&D terminology, the humanoids simply call celestials wizards.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I think it's mildly funny how when WotC got their hands on some LotR rights to make MtG cards, they still typed Hobbits as halflings.

But then the halfling token for the set is labeled as Tolkien Creature - Halfling instead of Token Creature - Halfling.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lord of the rings predates D&D though.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes I'm aware Lord of the Rings is not D&D fanfic, thanks. Twas a joke.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

My bad, you never know on the interwebz ^_^'