(does not reflect my opinion, just thought it looked funny)
Less hostile when in context.
Taken from a YouTube channel called Not Just Bikes.
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
889 points (90.5% liked)
Fuck Cars
9633 readers
514 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'll say that so much of this is unnecessary or even BS. Ban loud cars because they're annoying, that's all that is necessary. Set a decibel limit and if you exceed it then you can be fined. Set time limits like when most people are sleeping so you can have loud cars at some more reasonable times and ban them when people aren't expecting stupidly loud noises.
Most cities already have noise ordinances. But as usual owning a car gives you situational immunity to the law.
This was the line of thought I had as well, it should be so easy to stop this problem as it stands
You can't just bust out a sound meter and take a reading. There are so many factors that it makes it unenforceable, because at the end of the day the burden of proof would still be placed on the enforcement arm that it was that vehicle. How do you control for ambient noise? Distance? Temperature? It is just unenforceable to make a dB level a mark.
If your car goes pop pop pop, though, I think you need to have your car taken away, and maybe your freedom, because you're just an asshole.
They are not enforced.
Ok well regardless of surrounding habitats; it’s a driving hazard. Loud cars are a hazard on the road if the owner cannot hear those around them. It’s not on the list but it should be front and center when it comes to road safety around others cuz the road is shared.
That doesn't really make a lot of sense either though. Most cars have built in sound proofing and while you can hear other cars, it's rarely a useful sense when driving. If not being able to hear is a significant hazard then why are deaf people allowed to drive?
Doesn’t mean there isn’t a benefit with hearing.
There is for sure, but I would argue that a quieter sports car with too much power for an inexperienced driver to handle is more of a hazard than a loud old beater car. I guess I'm just trying to add that there are other things that people drive that are more dangerous than a loud vehicle that we should probably focus on first, as much as loud vehicles can be a nuisance.
Focus on first?
Why do you need this to be a competition? That’s pretty toxic approach to problems.
A loud motorcycle is annoying, but way less dangerous than a quiet truck that the driver can't see over, at least to other drivers and pedestrians. That's all I was trying to add. No competition or toxicity, so I don't know why you are getting that vibe. I even gave you that 1 up vote you have on that last comment there.
Better ban radios too then.
Well you sound unreasonable.
Fine the manufacturer for each incident with each vehicle and make them recall and fix every one to stop it. Unless it's the result of someone modifying their own vehicle, then you seize the vehicle and suspend their license.
People modify their vehicles to be loud.
Points 1-9 are empirically proven effects of noise, none of them are BS. Point 10 is an arbitrary opinion.
Points 1-9 being empirically proven is still a BS argument unless you're also supporting banning all loud noises. Using it as a justification for banning loud cars when we are around loud sounds elsewhere.
Uh... yes? This is commonly the case.
Germany e.g. has maximum noise immission levels of 55 dB(A) during daytime in mixed zoning areas to 35 dB(A) at night in hospital and similar areas...
Ambient sound levels from bugs can exceed 55dBa. We banning bugs?
35 is literally unobtainable, I don't understand. Wearing high heels will get you a fine. Laughter. Rain.
Immission, not emission. Generally the regulations deal with noise made by humans and especially their appliances. Also, of course there are exceptions, e.g. for children.
And yes, 35 dB(A) is achieveable. A hospital at night is no place to have a party around. Also nobody will wait for you to run around in high heels to give you a fine. But if you regularly do that in your flat and your neighbor below is sick of it, that might get you in trouble.
Edit: does anyone think downvoting will change those facts? 🤡
Yeah, immission isn't a word I've ever heard before so excuse my ignorance. Seems to correlate with how things are measured around here, where basically you take a historic ambient sound level and then the adjusted sound level after a source is introduced. For development, obviously doable. For people traversing the local roadway? Literally impossible. In fact, where I am from, the vehicle traffic associated with a use is typically exempt from their land use application because it's just not feasible to get an accurate representation. It's also not feasible to have a business put a "No popcorn tunes" sign up, and then actually enforce it.
Do you have any info on how this 35dB rule is enforced? Genuinely curious. My familiarity with the technology is through the testimony of experts in a quasi-judicial setting, and so I am far from an expert, but what I've heard with enough frequency is that it's difficult if not impossible to pull out vehicle noise from ambient noise.
In that vein, there are restrictions based on the duration of noises and their level. Basically, a car door slamming is instantaneous. The backup alarm on a truck is constant. But yeah, unrelated. I just don't know that you can use decibels to limit the motoring public.
And I say all of this being so staunchly against aftermarket tunes making your exhaust sound like you're running rich. Shit is stupid. I say this having, at a point in my life, drove a car (factory stock) that had a loud exhaust. And so I think if you're concerned, the best place to make a change is in regulations associated with vehicle exhausts. Neuter pickups and cars if they can't cc comply. You need noise to get horsepower and torque? Too bad, muffle and restrict your pipes, and if you can't make your vehicle strong enough, maybe make it smaller.
Most of all it's just that there's written rules, and that you can point at them if you feel things are too loud. With immission a lot is already considered when building new houses, train rails, streets, for example.
With cars and motorcycles there's also emission guidelines, and you have to register aftermarket changes with the inspection authority. And if the police catch you with unregistered alterations they can fine you, ask to show proof of registration within a week, or even impound your vehicle on the spot.
And if there's a e.g. noisy party in your area, you can call the police (a rite of passage for every German – your first noise complaint ("Ruhestörung")) and they will ask nicely one time, if they have to come a second or third time they might confiscate your stereo, disband the party, etc. But it's just their decision what's too loud, they won't take measurements.
If it's something that's not immediately obvious (e.g. dogs constantly barking), or the government is... less eager to act (e.g. airports) then it can evolve into a tedious and nerve wrecking legal battle. Which frequently happens.
I have lived in 4 different cities, two have no noise limit (just a generic don't be loud when it will bother others noise ordinance), the other has an 85 db night time ordinance, and the last is 55/45 db residential day/night (60/55 mixed use, 70/60 industrial).
Yeah.
... outside the US...
Idk, I'm curious how common it is outside of Germany specifically. I've heard that Germany has exceptionally strict noise restrictions.
35dB is quieter than a refrigerator.
So you didn't bother reading the comments right next to yours where I already explained this?
Yeah everything from the list except last point is forced and overdone