this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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In Israel Muslims and Arabs and ethnic Palestinian citizens do live in relative harmony, with all the same rights as Jews, including ability to be in government leadership.
Throughout all of Israel's history it has been cold, hard, fact that if Israel were to give citizenship rights to ALL Palestinians, those Palestinians would have the ability to vote Israel out of existence... To turn it into an anti-Jewish theocracy. And half a century of terrorism and attempts by surrounding countries to wipe Israel off the map shows that they are very inclined to do just that.
That's why Israel angled for a two state solution. Peace WITHOUT the destruction of Israel.
Both of these statements are just wrong.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration
Zionism really kicked off in popularity with the Balfour declaration which was an attempt by Britain to sway Jews everywhere to be sympathetic towards British interests. Zionists we’re upset at the lack of action in the subsequent years by the British and began smuggling Jewish settlers into the mandate, causing tensions with the local Palestinian Muslims, Christian’s and, to a lesser extent, Jews.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/gallery/2023/5/15/ethnic-cleansing-by-zionists-in-palestine
This is how the foundation of the state of Israel started. When the UN voted to establish Israel they gave a near 50/50 land split when Jews were less than 25% of the total population and Palestinians made up more than 60%. People were clearly mad and the events of the Nakba occurred.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
Since Israel’s domination of the land and both Palestinian Territories, Israel has increasingly gone with right wing governments like the current one in power, that has not all that slowly, nor all that suddenly, codified laws that keeps Palestinians as an underclass even within the borders of Israel. It’s become an apartheid state in many ways.
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702264118/netanyahu-says-israel-is-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people-and-them-alone
If you read up on the history of Bibi Netanyahu, who is still currently in power and has been for around 20 years, you will find he’s never really been shy of hiding his intentions to make Israel a state for just Jews.
None of your links rebut any of my claims.
Third link:
Can you read? It’s the 4th and 5th paragraph.
Yeah. Can you?
Amnesty international has created a logical fallacy in claiming that Israel is apartheid. For that claim to be true they are assuming that all Palestinians in the occupied territories are somehow disenfranchised subjects of the Israeli government.
If that logic were true, then we would have had to have said the same thing about Iraqis when the United States occupied Iraq. But of course that's a ludicrous claim. The United States didn't suddenly become an apartheid nation just because we conquered enemy territory.
Just because a territory is under military occupation does not mean that the people in those territories are citizens in waiting.
On the other hand, the Muslim Arab and ethnic Palestinians who ARE citizens of Israel have all the same rights and privileges as Jewish citizens of Israel.
First thing: the current leader of Israel has explicitly stated Israel is a state for Jews
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702264118/netanyahu-says-israel-is-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people-and-them-alone
How is the current PM of Israel explicitly stating the government is just for Jews not disenfranchisement?
Second thing: there’s a difference between formal citizenship and full citizenship
https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/responses/israel-as-an-ethnic-democracy-palestinian-citizens-and-the-fight-for-equal-rights
The fact that there is a difference precludes equality.
Think of it like this: when Trump was President he could have come out and said that the United States was a nation for Christians alone.
He could say it. He could get applause for it. But that wouldn't make it true.
In law school I took an Israel-US comparative law class. Israel doesn't have a constitution, but they do have Basic Laws which serve the same purpose. Among those laws are guarantees of equal protection regardless of religion.
So, think Israel's PM as an Israeli Trump. He's a dangerous, opening corrupt zealot, but he had a lot of internal opposition, and his words are not law.
Palestinians lost the right to claim they're not Hamas when they elected Hamas to lead them.
The opposition party only has 14 percent support.
The different is that Trump has never cracked 40 percent support in the US. Hamas has gotten at high as 75 percent among the Palestinians.
Also Trump lost the popular vote. Democrats have always had more support.
Hamas's opposition only has 14% support.
So sure, not all Palestinians support Hamas, but the overwhelming majority of them either support Hamas strongly or are on the fence about them.
It's hard to form an opposing party when the regime has a tendency to assassinate anyone who does. Do Palestinians really support the principles of Hamas, or are there just no other options in Gaza?
I totally agree. Palestinians have a difficult road forward. But them sorting their own shit out is a prerequisite to their ability to make and execute a peace treaty.
It was Israel who decided that they wanted Hamas to lead palestinians rather than the Palestine Liberation Organization.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
For decades the PLO had shown that they were not interested in peaceful coexistence. And that would prove to be true in the following decades as well.
In funding the PLO's political opposition, Israel was attempting to charge the political landscape, and weaken the PLO.
Remember the PLO might have been secular, but they were still terrorists.
In that context you can see how creating the group that would someday much later evolve into hamas was a bad gamble, but hindsight is 20-20.
Relative harmony shouldn’t include soldiers targeting the heads of teenagers with “non-lethal” rubber bullets and killing them for sport. The torture will continue until compliance is achieved.
Correct. Which is why any soldiers that do this are subject to the justice system in Israel. It's not condoned behavior.
But do you see Palestinian police rounding up the Hamas terrorists?
Is just completely wrong: For example if you're now Jewish, you are by law literally not allowed to drive on highways.
Is reactionistic speculation and literally racist.
Omegalul, downvoted for being right.
Please check your facts, this is completely wrong. People of all religions enjoy equal rights in Israel. There are Muslims, Christians, and others in government positions, in the police and army, judges, and in every other sector. Movement and transportation is not limited to anyone, especially not based on religion. Please don't lie.
"In a 2007 report, U.N. Special Rapporteur for Palestine John Dugard wrote, "elements of the Israeli occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, which are contrary to international law" and suggested that the "legal consequences of a prolonged occupation with features of colonialism and apartheid" be put to the International Court of Justice."
"On 1 February 2022, Amnesty International published a report, Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime Against Humanity, which stated that Israeli practices in Israel and the occupied territories equate to apartheid and that territorial fragmentation of the Palestinians 'serves as a foundational element of the regime of oppression and domination' "
this is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid
Another thing from this article is this; "Foreign governments who have used the word "apartheid" to describe the situation in Israel or in the Israeli-occupied territories include those of Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Nicaragua, North Korea, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela" I know that quoting this may be unsupportive to my argument at first, because I don't like these countries at all, and I am not pro Hamas because I don't want any religion to govern the rest anyway, but I think what one really can see in this is, that this topic is so polarized, that it's very hard to find the truth and that is why I quoted the UN part
And here is the issue I described: https://www.france24.com/en/20190204-focus-israel-palestinian-territories-apartheid-road-highway-4370-jerusalem-segregation