this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
531 points (93.6% liked)

Today I Learned

17722 readers
401 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**



Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Two of us, Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky, testified for Assange at his extradition hearing last year. In Ellsberg's words then, the WikiLeaks publications that Assange is being charged for are "amongst the most important truthful revelations of hidden criminal state behavior that have been made public in U.S. history." The American public "needed urgently to know what was being done routinely in their name, and there was no other way for them to learn it than by unauthorized disclosure."

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] JTode 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Exact dates escape me because I'd just as soon it all never happened. These are the rough outlines cause now my bile is up.

But, it's days before the 2016 election and everyone is laaaaaaaaughing at the idea of Trump winning. It was a real "Dewey Defeats Truman" moment except instead of one gun-jumping paper it was half the fucking country. Not me, and not a few other people who went on the record; Michael Moore called it, on the record, before anyone else that I'm aware of. I'm not a fan of his, cause after a while he becomes kind of, I dunno, cloying. But he called it a good year before the election, and he called it accurately for the right reasons.

Anyways, Assange released a bunch of nothingburgers about Clinton days before, but it was a sufficiently large trove of emails or whatthefuckever that there was no possibility of its being properly assessed on any level, and that analysis getting into the public mind before the election, in the first place. But never mind that, a lie can go round the world etc etc, and the Gamergate machine under Steve Gammon's control had already stoked a forest fire of fascistic emotion, for which these "Hilary Papers" became explosive fuel. I was on Twitter in the year or two after that and I remember "But Her Emails" being the venomous hashtag accompanying every picture of refugee children in cages and such.

That was one punch of two, delivered by Assange through Wikileaks, and that was the moment that I became his personal enemy, whatever the law might think. It was a piece of a calculated and coordinated propagandist operation, is my opinion on the matter. Or he was just that big of an asshole. I don't know, as I said, what all he thought he was getting, other than attention, which let's face it, is enough for most. Maybe he also thought that there was no way Trump could possibly actually win, and he was trying to shortsell a bit of extra heat for the coming highly-lucrative Clinton presidency. Lots of fuckwits did that too.

The other punch was of course the FBI guy announcing, this one I remember was eight days before the election, that they were investigating Clinton. Again, I cannot say that this was in any way coordinated, but boy did it put a real period on the whole "Clintons are murderers who are going to be exposed any day now" conspiracy that remains strong. Comey's PR since then has crafted an image of a resolute lawman who did what he was supposed to do according to the book. Such homunculi do exist in America. Fuck him too.

I dunno if that clarifies anything at all but that's another serving of my loathing. P.T. Barnum still has the pulse of America.

*Edit: I give some very flippant replies to an earnest defender of Comey further down in the thread. I did not have the energy at the time so I just defaulted to ACAB, because ACAB.

BUT, here is my only-slightly-more-nuanced take on Comey: Comey also knew that the same dynamics re the dexterity and agility of lies would apply to his Obviously Very Meaningful Announcement only 8 days before an election. He knew that there was no possibility that (a) the public would assume she was innocent until proven guilty, and (b) that even if she was, that truth would never drown out the howls of the Trump faithful, which at the time were very compelling to that bizarre species of ape, the Swing Voter.

He knew he was serving one particular side of this election.

If he didn't know these things, then he is an incompetent stooge and deserves to go down in history as an Incompetent Stooge.

Either way, fuck him also. *

[–] drphungky 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Comey announcing the Clinton investigation is in no way similar to Assange, despite having a similar effect. Comey was (and is) a boy-scout. He did what he thought was right when being stuck between two bad decisions. I maintain most ethical people, if put in his position, would have done the same thing. Assange is completely different.

[–] JTode 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] drphungky 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, disagree on fuck him. Poor dude has been unfairly villified and I don't envy the guilt he probably lives with, especially because I think he did the right thing (without the benefit of hindsight, anyway).

As a government worker myself, I know what it's like to work for shit pay for the mission and to read in popular media about what a terrible job you're doing. I want to see someone do it better when they understand all the nuances, or are faced with tough decisions. People are always ready to make snap decisions when they lack the whole picture or have to actually think about the consequences. Can you imagine the hue and cry if Clinton were elected and it came out she was under investigation later, and that on top of that the investigation was now dropped (because nothing was found)? For all we know we could've had January 6th 4 years earlier! It's an impossible counterfactual.

[–] JTode 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] drphungky 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone hates cops and lawyers until they need one...

I mean fair enough. I get the phrase, and while I kind of agree with the reasoning behind it even if I don't agree with the actual sentiment, I definitely don't think it applies to the FBI.

[–] JTode 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Let's see what they do about that podunk police force that murdered the smalltown paper down in, was it Kansas there? Seems to me that whole town should already be overrun with g-men in horn-rimmed glasses ready to Mississippi Burning the whole county to the ground.

Edit - also, to be fair, quite a few people hate the cops even more after they need one, because the cop didn't do shit.

[–] drphungky 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Kansas Bureau of Investigation is already investigating: https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2023/08/15/state-investigators-will-probe-police-raid-kansas-newspaper-office/

Lots of local police forces absolutely suck. Many cops are bastards, so to speak. But lots of state and federal (and yes, even some local) cops investigate white collar crime, human trafficking, murders, and yes, even wrongdoing by other local cops!

[–] JTode -1 points 1 year ago