this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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This is a genuine question, as every time I have an argument about this with someone they bring a point so utterly stupid that it leaves me stumped...

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (12 children)

If you care about the people you're talking to, belittling their entire viewpoint dismissively without countering their arguments. Is not going to win them over. In fact it might hurt their relationship with you.

If you have the time and inclination, take the argument they have that you have an issue with, and break it down to its fundamental points. It's a good exercise for both of you. Work through what things mean at a fundamental level to both of you and find what the core disagreement is. Is it philosophical, is it structural, is it traditional, there's many facets of an argument that people can latch on to. Having them explain why to you and then why the why etc can be helpful for both you and them to come to if not a common understanding but a mutual respect for positions.

But this is time intensive, and if we're just talking about randos on the internet it's not worth your time.

[–] PineapplePartisan 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This also presumes that aspects of the root cause are changeable. I grew up with a guy who became an incel in the pure sense, not political sense.

The poor guy was hit with the ugly stick very badly, and then had an accident that left him partially disabled.

When puberty hit and everyone became horny assholes, he had a double whammy of being a horny asshole too, but getting ignored (at best) or out-right derision from the teen girls he expressed interest in. He was also self-aware enough to both know that he was a hypocrite because he only wanted to date an attractive woman, and that he understood that goes both ways (societally and biologically) so he went into a cycle of vocal self-loathing.

You can guess the rest. Those behaviors compounded and altered his personality to the point he was no longer the happy go lucky ugly ass dude and was now the guy who was just as ugly on the inside as the outside and no one wanted to be around that negativity.

I have no idea what happened to him after college as I never went back to my HS town after my parents moved away from it. I would like to think he is doing better with age and therapy, but I doubt it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm not saying you're going to convince everyone. But clearly you understand this person's motivations. You can't bring them to your perspective, but you can socialize a healthier perspective to them. You don't have to convince everybody to be you. And I'm really happy that you're so conscientious and sympathetic. Probably something that person needed to be less of an asshole than they could have possibly been.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

That's so sad - sometimes life can be so horribly unfair!

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