Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
view the rest of the comments
One University study suggests that primates have been masturbating for around 40 million years. I think it’s safe to say we’re probably ok beating our meat a little now and then (though obviously excessive masturbation can be an issue). Interestingly, prevalence of masturbation seems to go up with primates in captivity, which to me suggests it’s either a stress response (relieving tension), a reaction to the more limited activities available (boredom), and/or a reaction to the safer environment (more free time not worrying about getting killed).
But isn't the point of nofap that porn conditions our thoughts to imaginary situations that might be unlikely in real life? Like impossible body standards or performance standards or just unnatural interactions.
Even if that was their point it's not true. But nofap is no masturbation period. Not just against watching porn.
I know that anecdotes are bad quality evidence, but there’s a hell of a lot of anecdotal data that sex tastes have changed over the last 60 years. Are there alternative theories about what caused it?
Every part of culture has changed over the last 60 years. Why would sex be any different?
Well for one, it’s mostly private, so there isn’t as much group think about it. I don’t know if it’s changed historically as much as it recently has, but that’s an interesting area to research
How do you think they 've changed? It could very easily be society being more open to discussing sexual tastes compared to 60 years ago.
Frankly? Way too much oversharing with friends of all ages. That’s why it’s anecdotal, but it’s even changed in my time having sex. It’s just not something that I’ve seen studied by someone other than Christian mom groups.
Edit: I can’t reply in a comment, so here’s my answer to azuth
Well that’s a way of dismissing it, yes. However, I as the person involved in the conversation can tell you that is not the case. I’ve heard some incredibly over detailed and overshared information from older people. I’ve also fucked them, and they’re not as kinky ime, but that’s like four people instead of thirty. Foot fetishes don’t seem to be meaningfully more common among youth, but likelihood to have had anal sex, likelihood to have tried fisting, choking, or non-spanking painplay are much higher.
I used to go to munches before the pandemic, and there’s obviously a lot of old people in BDSM, but it’s wild how much more quickly people discover it now. That’s a good thing, but it’s also a little concerning for me at least. My tastes have expanded with time, as most peoples do, but what’s going to be left at 70, if I’m getting ownership tattoos at 35? It’s cool to say, “whatever it is, I’ll enjoy it,” but there’s a physical cost to a lot of sex acts, especially extreme ones. Things like breast flogging are considered probably safe, but we don’t actually know if there’s lasting damage.
Then there’s the people who don’t go to munches or participate in the BDSM scene, but still engage in a “lighter” form of it with partners. I and about half of my similarly aged friends have been at some point surprise choked by a partner, which as a description feels euphemistic, because it’s so much more dangerous than anything else. Doing it by surprise is something that I react to like it’s attempted murder, because someone’s putting their hands around my neck without a safe word or any built up trust, or even warning. My peer friends who aren’t in BDSM are all caught way off guard by that and tend to think I’m overreacting. Older vanilla friends see it mostly the same as I do, whereas kinky friends are universally bothered by it.
So it's not actually the sexual 'tastes' that have changed but society's willingness to speak about them?
Even if so, what is exactly the problem with sex tastes changing?
I’m not sure there is one, but it’s a sign that porn would be impacting us as a population.
Or it could be millions of other things. The biggest being less societal pressure on individual preferences and women gaining much more agency in society.
Maybe 🤷 I suspect porn’s role is non zero, but it’s not exactly easy to study without a population that doesn’t really use porn while allowing for individuality and personal rights.
Because things like choking someone almost to death, or getting choked are concerning expressions of a damaged psyche. Also unrealistic expectations can cause more frustration on both ends, were people feel unable to meet these expectations and people fail to realize their expectations to be unrealistic.
So in all we could see a development of people having less sex, having less enjoyable sex and using sex to cope with serious mental issues instead of getting help, while society is ignoring problematic soxietal developments by shoving them into sexuality and declaring it as just being liberated kinkyness.
None of these are absolutes and there is many positive changes happening too, but we need to understand sex tastes and sex behaviour to be a reflection of individuals and society, where problems will also show that we need to adress
I see you are a friend of bold claims with nothing to back them up. But I would encourage you to read Marquis de Sade if you think we are getting too Kinky. What I see is humans being less afraid to try out and live out their sexual fantasies and therefore having a more full filling sex life.
You misunderstood me then. Nowhere did i say it is bad or good. I said it needs to be understood as a mirror of people and their society and the underlying issues need to understood.
But yes there is limits to kinkyness. Some years back a guy got convicted because he strangled a woman to death during initially consensual SM sex. He claimed it easnt intentional. He tried to argue in court that sex and death belong together and they found more than 1000 porn videos in his computers with women being killed during sex. If we get to that, then it went too far.
So wich one is it, did we go too far or is it neither good or bad?
There is no issue, people have Kinky fantasy, just read some older sex fiction. Even classics as Anaïs Nin can be rather dark. We are just less suppressed by societal norms and are able to share them more freely. And if someone has a problem of separating fiction, fantasy and reality - that is a whole other story, but Salinger is not responsible for Lennons death.
The development in its entirety is neither good or bad, but it needs to be understood, as to why such fringe cases occur.
Is it so hard to understand that the world isnt just black or white?
Sex related violence did not occure before? What development are you talking about? People being more open about their sexual fantasies?
You are the one who is bringing judgment in - so why are you asking me?