this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
The new place for c/[email protected]
This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Date Created: June 21, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library π
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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When "just start your own business" is presented as a real viable alternative to a job with someone else, they are saying it's easy. There's nothing easy about it. And they don't tell you very important things like the tax penalty you have to pay if you don't file quarterly.
Life is not naturally easy- it is only because of the labor of others that life is anywhere near as comfortable as it is now.
We have the means to make a fair and equitable society with minimal crime and no hunger. We, as a society, choose not to. We choose the hard life for the sake of getting everything we worked for to ourselves at the risk of losing it all with one bad day. That's not comfortable. The labour of all should benefit all so that everyone can have an easy and comfortable life.
What do you mean by "we chaosem the hard life"? What do you think should be done to achive easy life for everyone?
We choose to continue to live in a pro-capitalist society, therefore we choose the hard life. Pure and true socialism is the easy way out my friend. Comfort for all.
But how?
More taxes ( mostly corporate) and not have the government misappropriate the funds, and giving a shit about other humans is a great start.
life can be easy for everyone if we all chip in a little, it's the whole basis of society, we just can't afford the hoarding aristocracy
Serious question: do you think the "aristocracy" has like, vaults full of money? Like you think Jeff Bezos has billions of dollars sitting in his bank account? Or a literal vault?
Because that is definitely not how rich people actually live. As a rule, they have very little liquidity as a percent of their net worth.
What does that have to do with anything? Just because the wealth is on paper doesn't make it any less real.
It matters because people suggest that Bezos et al "hoard wealth" which is both untrue and impossible with the way their wealth is calculated.
But they are totally hoarding their on paper wealth. It's impossible to end up with $200 billion without intentionally hoarding it.
That's not true at all. Bezos, for instance, is worth so much solely because Amazon is worth so much. It has nothing to do with his personal spending habits whatsoever.
Bezos is the CEO of Amazon, he can definitely take some of the credit/blame that it's worth so much and that he has such a large stake. He could cash out at any point, but he chooses not to, aka hoarding.
... what exactly do you think would happen to Amazon's stock value if Bezos cashed out?
And how exactly is owning a company "hoarding"
It would drop a bit, depending on how he handled the PR. Anyway, then he could donate 99.99% of his wealth and still have far more than any of us will ever have in our lives. But he doesn't, because he's hoarding it.
Dude there's nothing else to say but you literally do not know how wealth actually works
Starting a business is very easy. Much easier than searching for a job. Sustaining your business is a different matter.
I mean, it definitely is an alternative, but it's not easy at all
Dude, stop. They don't want to run a business, they want a guarantee of security, and by rights they are entitled to that. If you don't agree, that's your problem, but don't come up on here thinking their complaints are a threat to your society thinking you have to change their way of thinking to quell it.
We're abandoning you whether you like it or not :P
Jesse wtf are you talking about?
You're defending a shitty evil economic system by defending the notion of small business as a meaningful alternative to work while ignoring the motivations of who you're talking to. Doing that belies your motivations: you see him complaining as a threat to capitalism which you support, which is why you're trying to convince him in the first place.
I am telling you we're going to abandon capitalism whether you like it or not, shutting down your primary goal of convincing people not to complain. I'm telling you emphatically we're going to do a lot more than complain.
It's that simple
No one is abandoning capitalism lol
Shit, formerly-communist countries embraced capitalism to have any sort of economy at all.
The western world starting with millennials is, and you can see it everywhere. The system is collapsing under its own weight due to regulatory capture, climate collapse, and the destabilization of the U.S. And if that isn't enough, I'll likely do it my own damn self with my own life plans and goals.
No one wants your shitty dystopian hellscape. Take it and shove it.
It really isn't.
And I really doubt you will
This is a false dichotomy where the only options are capitalism and communism. In reality, there are other alternatives such as economic democracy that preserve markets but change the property relations of work
wym hes just trying to cook
Go live in North Korea, no one is stopping you.
Go back to Stalingrad with the rest of the right-wing traitors, nothing is stopping you
Wut? You insane or something?
It sounds great, but I forget the part where I asked for your opinion
I forget the part where I need your permission to give it
you did by publicly posting it on a fucking forum where people are meant to engage in each other dumb ass lol. No wonder it seems you aint too bright. Youre just like the fucking idiots on facebook who post inflammatory comments then get pissed when people respond to them.
Dude is high on groupthink.
Kind of ironic
There is no financial security. Anyone of you, even higher paid people, could go homeless any second and there is nothing you can do about it.
Meh, you find out about that the first year and honestly in the US, it's not that much.