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As a parent with a kid entering middle school who just got a phone (average age for one in this area) here is my 2 cents:
I want my kid to have a phone more for me than her. There are no pay phones and if, heaven forbid, some shit goes down (we are on America and shit goes down in schools) I need to not only be able to allow her to easily contact us and us to contact her, I need to know her location. Past events have shown we can't count on anyone else. Barring school shootings, I would not be anywhere near as concerned about her having one. I know parents of kids with severe allergies also want kids to have a phone on them.
Since she could talk we have talked about media and it's influence on her mind and life. That talk has evolved as she has grown. I studied the impact of harmful media, so in this way I have the privilege of knowing why this education is so vital. She knows what she watches and puts out there can impact her in insane ways. And though I have to slowly trust that this took root in her as I cant control what she watches forever, things like Google family link can help me block sites and apps, make her ask for permission etc. She knows I do this and why and she will talk to me when she thinks she should have access. It's a conversation.
I know her friends parents don't do this. Which I also know allows her access other ways, again, I have to slowly hope this education worked. I wonder if more parents instead were taught to take these steps if it would help and if we taught students directly. There are privacy concerns too though, my kid knows I'm here parent, not the government, she has no expectation of privacy on her phone (mostly anyway) at this age from me, but she should from her school so I wouldn't want them to be allowed to block etc.
You sound like a parent who manages to be caring and involved, without being overbearing. That’s difficult. Congrats!
Why thank you. Not many wins in life so I'm gonna take this comment into the weekend, Friend. Be well!
Imo, this is the root of the issue that must be addressed. No child under 16 should have a smart phone, of anything they should have a flip phone for calling and texting only, no apps.
Children will see violence, porn, or beheading videos if they have a smart phone. No parental controls can stop a child from seeing the full Internet and a lot of parents don't get that. The quickest way is to boot the phone into safe mode, access the web browser, boom full Internet.
I think that this is like wrapping a kid in bubble-wrap, though. And like, not in that "over-coddling" metaphorical sense, but much more literal - sure, the kid can't get scrapes if they fall off their bike, but the other kids are going to make fun of the kid wearing bubble wrap.
You don't necessarily want to give them an unrestricted mainline to the worst of the internet, but you don't want to overcorrect so hard that you're causing other problems.
As toxic as it is, as much as there's space for harms and bullying, or that the internet holds porn and violent content ... the internet and social media spaces are where a huge portion of kids social lives live, and barring them from participating in that will do one of two things - teach them to get sneaky in order to bypass the restriction, or force them into an 'outsider' role in their peer group. In the first, it's a lost cause and all you're doing is making it inconvenient without addressing the harms - and ensuring they can't talk to you about what comes from that space. In the latter, there are strong social and self-esteem costs associated with excluding your child from having a social life with other children - is it "better" for the parent to do the harm instead of the other children? Is it better for your relationship with that child, long-term, their trust in you, or your ability to support them?
The kid restricted to "dumb phone only, no internet, no apps" is the current generations' equivalent of that one kid that wasn't allowed to go to the park, or the mall, or hang out on the street - whatever any given past generation used as their youthful Third Place, where they could socialize and hang out separate from school and without adults actively supervising them. And it's never been great for the kid whose parents won't let them participate in the common social life that their peers have.
It's far more fruitful to give them age-appropriate education related to their use of and relationship with the internet and provide a controlled and supported introduction than it is to simply bar their access for several years. You're either stunting their social development in order to avoid harms to their social development (?!?!) or you're simply winding the proverbial rubber band tighter and tighter against an inevitable rebellion - at which point they're jumping in headlong without ever developing any sort of media literacy or social media savvy and never had a chance to build coping and resilience for whatever rabbit holes they're likely to fall into .
I blocked social media sites at the router and on the phones for my kids and don't feel bad about it at all.
Reason I don't feel and about it is that as soon as we blocked everything my daughter's mental health did a 180 from planning her suicide to having real life goals. And she tells all her friends how much happier she is without those stupid apps all the damn time.
I make an effort to talk to my kids about media and critical thinking. We have awesome communication and I'm super happy that my kids talk to me about things. They're not ostracized for their lack of TikTok. They actively avoid the kids who are obsessed with socials because those kids are toxic and struggle in ways that make them not great friends. I truly don't see a downside to implementing this boundary on behalf of my kids.
If your kid feels left out because they can't wreck their mental health with their peers then there's some serious values conversations that need to be had. It's ok, and necessary to use tools for your kids when they can't or won't use them on their own. That's what being a parent means.
My comment was clearly not written to give you advice for your specific child and her suite of issues.
I'm speaking a lot more generally and while I'm leaving room for parents like you to make your choices, I'm also still being direct that I think it's not a good universal rule. Even if that is an outcome someone chooses, it's no less true that engaging with the whole choice is necessary to do a good job of making it. Internet=bad is an incredibly simplistic old-person take at this stage in society, and some parents even to current generations can misunderstand or underestimate the significant role that the internet can play in their kids' lives. No solution fits across all kids, that's part of the challenge - but understanding the role that the internet plays in modern kids' social world and peer networks is important to making decisions about their access to it with complete information and goal-oriented integrity.
The matched point in that comment you may have missed is that I'm not modelling my remarks around a binary of "unrestricted internet" vs "no internet." If anything, I think I was clearly saying that absolute 'solutions' get progressively worse the wider they cast their net - as more and more unintended consequences are included in that broad-reaching choice.
Separately, you also shouldn't expect that what you felt you needed to do in order to support your child in a relatively unusual situation - will also be a good foundation for broad-case parenting practices. What is good for one child is not good for all children - and the more unusual the child or their needs, the less applicable that solution would be to "average" kids. There are other kids in similar-looking situations where your solution would exacerbate the problem instead of reduce it - now not only are they depressed and bullied, but also isolated from their friends. The vast majority of kids aren't in situations particularly similar to yours and using your solution in their cases risks putting them into worse places than they started, or putting a target on them where none existed prior. Sever the child from the internet isn't something you necessarily should be treating as universally good for all parents and all kids with zero possible downsides.
There are always downsides. Especially in parenting, everything is a trade-off and nothing is clear-cut. If you can't see what's being traded off - in effectively anything - that's a good cue to start hunting for blind spots. Especially when making rules for kids like cutting off parts of their world. As you said, being a parent requires making tough choices, and that requires engaging with the whole cost/benefit of the choice.
There's nothing challenging or tough about firmly believing you are wholly, completely, and absolutely Correct in whatever option you pick. It's easy to choose something and insist that it's 100% totally and absolutely correct with zero room for discussion. That approach actively shuts down all the actually hard parts of making the choice. But that is a choice with it's own downsides. It makes it hard to relate to those kids as they age enough to challenge you, or start leaving home, and it doesn't model behavior that I - personally - think is producing functional adults down the road. At the very least, the kind of person who is never wrong is not the kind of person I want to raise.
So I think that commenting more specifically on what you've said here - it rings some bells and tints some flags. You're proudly teaching your kids critical thinking, yet also say you cannot see any downsides to cutting off social media completely. You're absolutely blase about deeming all kids who use social media "toxic" and "bad friends" with "struggles" as if it's completely normal, healthy, and definitely non-toxic for an adult to be passing those kind of judgements about children on such a trivial basis, and to model that for their own kids. You talk about one child's needs to justify the choice, but have more than that one affected by it. You reacted as if this is already a hot-button issue to you - and responded to remarks clearly speaking generally and not at all targeting to you as if it was a personal attack, returning fire with a bunch of spicy jibes about me as a person and as a parent. If this is how you experience and respond to an opinion you disagree with on the internet, I can certainly imagine how you deal with faintest hints of dispute from your own children. Of course they're telling you what you want to hear.
The calls are coming from inside the house, friend.
I'm with you on this. I blocked them too and my kid knows why. The commenter above may mean more using/having a smart phone and internet access generally and I reluctantly agree for the most part. But yeah, fuck social media and it's debilitating impact. Not just on youth, I don't use that shit because five minutes makes my fairly successful ass feel terrible too! Just toxic all around.
They say on social media
I totally get your thinking, and really thought this put and almost went that route. But she is 11, I want to see how she uses this stuff and have an active part in it and teaching her how to navigate because at this age there is no holding back. Maybe if all the kids had dumb phones that tracked location or something but it is not the world we live in. I pretty much agree with the comment below yours except on social media. I have a hard fucking no stop and I think, I can't be sure but really think, my kid gets why that is just so terrible. Thankfully we don't use it so it's easier to call that a cesspool. We'll aside from reddit and now lemmy 😉
We did similar with our kid regularly talking about social medias effects and ills. Maybe not in enough detail (mental note for me to bring this up soon). She's entering HS and is mostly uninterested in social media. Only thing we blocked was TikTok. She mostly only texts with friends. Which can and has led to issues, but normal ones that are somewhat manageable. I would imagine plenty of parents do similar. And plenty don't.
I'm not even sure we as a society entirely grasp the impacts of social media on society or individuals. Things seem notably different today versus a decade ago. The whole influencer culture. Ever more sophisticated information. Alt right recruiting tactics. Echo chambers. I think we are collectively fucked for a couple generations at least.