this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2025
95 points (99.0% liked)
Ukraine
8703 readers
999 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
πΊπ¦ Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
π»π€’No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
π₯Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
π·Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human involved must be flagged NSFW
β Server Rules
- Remember the human! (no harassment, threats, etc.)
- No racism or other discrimination
- No Nazis, QAnon or similar
- No porn
- No ads or spam (includes charities)
- No content against Finnish law
π³π₯ Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
π³βοΈβοΈ Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
πͺ π«‘ Volunteer with the International Legionnaires
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Iβm pretty dumb, whatβs the significance?
There's been a huge increase in the usage of fiber optic drones by Ukranian forces in that area.
Which is significant how / why?
Drone usage has played a big role in the war. Early on they were just dropping explosives on live troops and later started doing kamikaze runs where the drone would detonate on impact. Now drones can even drop anti tank explosives.
As drone usage has increased, this opened the opportunity for units to start deploying signal jamming setups-- such as an infantry unit with a huge array of antennas set up to jam any wireless device within a certain radius. Since drones were operated wirelessly this meant the drones just crashed.
To combat this, both sides have started using fiber optic connections to control the drones. The drones have a spool underneath them with the fiber optic cable and i have seen some advertise a range as far as 40km so far. This means the drones no longer can be jammed like before.
Recently Ukraine announced they have a laser that they can use to shoot down drones as another advancement in the technology.
And all of this IMO is why the war in Ukraine has been allowed to continue. It's live weapon/ technology testing for modern warfare
allowed to continue by who? the way I see it Russia could end the war anytime by just going home
Yes, i agree. I meant other countries haven't given ukraine as much aid as they could, or pressured Russia directly enough to end the war. Other countries are benefiting from the technology advancements being made in Ukraine so they have an interest in giving the minimal help needed to keep the war going.
I think innovation like this, that is so cheap and accessible, is terrible for the super powers. I'm imagining if this type of thing was available in the Iraq or Afghanistan wars, the US would have had a MUCH worse time.
I would think it would be in the best interests of any first world country with a tendency toward... wars away from home... to limit the advancement of technology like this.
Yup, on both points. That said, we've only seen what disorganized and underfunded groups struggling to survive could do with the tech in Ukraine. Imagine what a superpower could bring to mass production, long range delivery and mass coordination coupled to a first class military - china or the us. And it's going to be peer adversarial - drones sometimes take out other drones in Ukraine, in the next major conflict we're going to see swarm vs swarm actions.
shit's gonna get crazy fast
You can't jam the signal when it's directly connected. Think ethernet cable to wifi. The war heavily uses drones. It's been a cat and mouse game that Ukraine has been winning and this is the latest innovation.
But wouldn't fiber optic cable over long distance add so much weight as to impede flight or carrying munitions? Is it shockingly lightweight?
A 5 km spool of 50 micrometer fiber weighs approximately 1 kg - but that's a telecom spool. Drone operators use lighter spools and some use 25 micrometer fibers.
Air resistance is considerable, though. Think of a drone carrying a small bucket. And you cannot zigzag under trees - but that's a rare thing to do even with radio control.
Glad to hear that Ukrainians have some fiber system in widespread use. Some projects to assist them are still stuck behind technical obstacles. I think their technicians put in more working hours, and had less formalities that slow down testing.
I recall that in spring, when Ukrainians found the first Russian fiber drone crashed (most people didn't even know of the possibility), a well known radio amateur Serhii "Flash" Beskrestnov communicated the design very clearly and posted photos. Obvious message: "they will soon have it working, we need to work hard to get the same or better". The message was received - in many places, not just Ukraine.
Another benefit is that most of the fiber will be on the ground as you get closer to the target. Your drone will get lighter as it flies.
Could you reel it back in after the drone explodes for reuse?
You wouldn't want to. Lives could depend on the next drone's mission, why risk losing it from a kink in the fiber? Also, the time putting it back on reels is better spent elsewhere. Fiber is very, very, very cheap compared to all other expenses in war. You don't collect brass to re-load ammo on the battlefield either.
I'm going to bet they're older spools for tow missiles.
Think fishing line. It's so thin it weighs basically nothing.
Impressive. Thank for the info.
Using wireless to control the drone makes the drone and operator very easy to detect. Controlling via fiber it's mush harder to detect.
Thanks I looked up more about it. Roughly 7 mile range but Iβm sure that will increase. For reference I read this link https://defensefeeds.com/analysis/how-do-fiber-optic-drones-work/
Wondering the same thing myself
Ukraine has had a lot of success using remotely operated suicide drones. They are cheap, built mostly from off the shelf hobbyist grade components, but with a few inexpensive upgrades the signal goes for miles. Strap a grenade on the bottom or any kind of bomb with an impact fuse and you have an excellent remote control weapon.
So of course the Russians start deploying radio jammers to block the drone signals.
The solution to this is fiber optics. The drone carries a giant spool of hair thin fiber optic cable which sends control commands from the operator and video back from the drone. Because it's a cable, it's immune to jamming.
The cable is insanely thin, usually in the tens of microns thickness. So they don't bother recovering the cable, drone flies out spooling out cable behind it, hits its target and blows up, operator just detaches that fiber and pulls out another drone with another spool of cable to start again. This leaves tons of little fibers laying around on the countryside because every drone leaves one in its path.
That's the point of this video. Most of those fibers have a dead Russian soldier at the end of them.
Its very "the fates". Literally clipping threads.
This link explained a lot for me
https://defensefeeds.com/analysis/how-do-fiber-optic-drones-work/
tl;dr: drones can be tethered by fiber optic cables. The cable provides jam-proof communication between the drone and the operator; and it also supplies power to the drone so it doesn't need a massive battery pack and can stay airborne longer.
Fiber optic cable canβt supply power.
They could if it was a copper wire, but then itβs even heavier.
According to the article:
There's no way that's correct though, with current technology
Maybe this is why we shouldn't have AI write articles. Does the drone have a solar panel on the other end of the cable?
Sadly, the article has been written by a non-competent person.
I can claim to be a competent person and explain a bit.
At a drone's own voltage (4..8 lithium cells in series), powering an FPV attack drone requires 2 wires of 2,5 - 4,0 square millimeters of thickness. One meter of this pair of wires weighs about 50 grams. One kilometer would weigh 50 kilograms, but would exhibit a voltage drop proportional to length, so in reality, you'd need to increase the diameter several times.
If one was into physical experiments, using super high voltage and thinner wires, this could be brought down, but voltage converters on both ends would gain weight and insulation thickness would have to increase: as you raise voltage in an electrical cable (e.g. into kilovolts) current starts arcing across air gaps and breaking though insulation. That's why high voltage power lines have long ceramic / glass insulators. :) So building a hypothetical "330 kilovolt drone" would be the last thing anyone would do. :)
Thank you, that was helpful.