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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025
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Who the fuck works at ICE and thinks the new policies are ok?
You don’t work at ICE and not be a racist authoritarian.
Yeah well. You're probably right. I mean they're basically speical cops.
That's overly reductive. There are people working at ICE because they see how racist and authoritarian it is and they want to be part of changing that system.
I'll happily admit that ICE is pretty fucking attractive to racist authoritatians but leaning too far into generalizations will give you a very black and white view of the world that doesn't reflect reality.
There are also people that work for the police because they want to positively change their community. There's a reason that ACAB is still true, despite that fact.
AACAB
Are you the same person as the poem_for_your_sprog user on reddit? If so I'm glad to see you switched to Lemmy.
I don't think the OG ever posted a non-poem, from my memory. Maybe they're just here for the community, but I doubt it's the original.
Do you see a poem in that post? They're a username thief clearly.
If so, really cool
Nope. ICE it's a byproduct of 9/11, and is racism and xenophobia wrapped in a burning flag of patriotism.
F U C K
ICE
It absolutely was created out of pure racism and xenophobia but you're wrong if you think people haven't joined it to try and make it better.
I also agree it'd be wonderful if ICE simply didn't exist. It's mandate for existence is rotten to the core.
That still doesn't mean it is entirely composed of people who want to perpetuate that harm. The view you're supporting is the same one that discourages people from getting into politics because politicians are all useless. There's a system and it does harm - some people join the system to try and reduce the harm it does.
The vanishingly small number who join for non-malicious reasons and either converted into racist bullies, or are driven out, just like honest cops in a department that's corrupt or racist.
Joining the Nazi party to change it from within still involves joining the Nazi party.
You bring up an interesting point. So do you think Schindler was wrong to act how he did?
That’s a fair point, but you could also consider his factory still contributed to the war effort.
It absolutely did. Schindler contributed to the deaths of a vague many while saving some specific few.
If he had shuttered (and potentially sabotaged) his factory would more people have been saved or would he simply be replaced by a more cruel person who killed all those vague many and the some specific few.
It's hard to know - and it's why I take umbridge with viewing things through such a stark black and white lens. I legitimately don't know the answer - either in that case or with ICE. But I know, simply due to the scale of people, that some people are genuinely trying to reduce the harm of ICE from within.
One thing to bear in mind is that Schindler is generally hailed for his actions - I don't know if they were correct and optimal... but a lot of people do think they were praiseworthy.
I'm married to someone who was on a green card for a long time. Believe me when I say that in over 90% of our encounters with ICE, we were treated with arrogance and hostility. And she's a hardworking professional who toes the line and complies with every rule, and her case couldn't have been simple: spouse of a native-born American. It didn't matter to those swine. They were there because they know they could bully people who couldn't answer back.
"Guys, some people just joined the Nazis because they wanted them to be less racist! You can't just say all Nazis are racist!"
You know how people get jaded at work towards customers at jobs like stores and support centers? I bet the jaded people at ICE are real fun to be around.
Probably a decent chunk... but the more dangerous portion is those who legitimately believe in the system. Under a normal administration we'd rightfully object to a public servant that refused to carry out their duties.
If a Dem had just won and said "We're going to make sure asylum seekers are all given temporary accommodations in motels until we can process them" and some conservation asshat said "Yer nuh muh presuden" and simply refused to carry out the order we'd rightfully be pissed off that some individual administrator was trying to singlehandedly undermine the electoral will.
This is a fucking complex situation because most people working in government have an understanding of this (which is normally good) and just want to make the implementation of policies that they may not fully agree with as efficient and kind as possible.
Much like MLK's sentiment, the majority of atrocities carried out under the Trump admin will be done by relatively unobjectionable people who are just trying to locally minimize harm. Someone liberal might stay in ICE and comply with these orders because they believe they can take small actions to make the implementation of school raids less cruel and, genuinely, they're probably right.
We're in a weird fucking situation and we're all about to learn how we'd have acted if we lived in 1930s Germany. Will we be the cruel ideologue who actively causes harm? Will we resign in protest and become essentially irrelevant? Will we try to work within the system to prevent small cruelties while supporting large cruelties (i.e. Schindler)? Will we apathetically continue to support the economic system of cruelty? Etc...
This is going to be a cruel four years.
You're right. The best thing to do, though, is resist. Simple disobedience will slow their plans. There's so much power in simply not cooperating and being a nuisance. If you haven't read it already, the OSS (precursor to the CIA) has a great guide in simple sabotage for everyday people (Simple Sabotage Field Manual) that when done can stymie them. This was written back in the '40s during WWII to help occupied countries resist.
And I agree that there are some people in ICE trying to lessen harm. To that, I say that we should find them and support them and give them whatever aid. That goes for anyone who works in the federal government. A low level person at State can "accidentally" approve changes to trans people's documents. An office worker at DoE can ask annoying questions and derail meetings. It's little acts of sabotage that when added up can bring this to a screeching halt.
Yooo. For real.