this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
42 points (93.8% liked)

politics

19224 readers
3086 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The economic factor is easily the biggest blindspot in the Dem's campaign. We're still seeing articles right now about how Biden "fixed" the economy only to hand it over to Trump to destroy again..

They're absolutely stuck on this idea that Biden was great for the economy because metrics like GDP and the S&P 500 went up, all the whole ignoring the simple fact that those numbers only represent meaningful gains for the wealthy. With mounting inflation and stagnant wages, most people are poorer than ever.

They lost because they promised "four more years of this", and "this" was "you getting poorer every day." It's really that simple.

[–] Nightwingdragon 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

They lost because they promised “four more years of this”, and “this” was “you getting poorer every day.” It’s really that simple.

So voting for a guy who wants to deport a good chunk of our labor supply, enacting tariffs that will cause prices to skyrocket, gutting social safety net programs, and endorsing someone who actively wants to "impose more hardship" on people is the better idea?

I understand not wanting to have to settle for the "lesser evil" or "least bad" option, so to speak. But there's a point where you have to suck it up and do that. Allowing the greater evil to rise to power just to "send a message" or whatever is not only shooting yourself in the foot, it's reloading the shotgun when you realize you missed some toes. You need to know when to pick your battles, and the 2024 election was not the time. All people with this mindset did is just make things worse for everybody.

People ridicule the GOP for constantly voting against their best interests. But if this is the mindset you have, you're guilty of the exact same thing.

[–] Ensign_Crab 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I understand not wanting to have to settle for the “lesser evil” or “least bad” option, so to speak. But there’s a point where you have to suck it up and do that.

This was not a compelling message, and people stayed home.

[–] Nightwingdragon 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

However you want to word it, the end result was the same, and was just as stupid. People didn't like the message Dems were sending, so they opted to allow someone exponentially worse to rise to power, and are now complaining about things getting exponentially worse.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. They made that choice knowing full well the consequences of it, made it anyway, and are now complaining about the consequences.

[–] Ensign_Crab 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

You're right. You're entitled to the unquestioning loyalty of everyone to your left that you hate, no matter what you do. Keep moving to the right. It's all you will ever do because genocide wasn't far enough to the right for you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It never mattered what Trump was promising. Not in specific sense. It only mattered that he promised things would get better. The how was irrelevant.

When you're drowning, and someone says "I'll help you!" you don't ask them to lay out their exact plan. You just throw out your hand and hope they'll take it.

These people made a very simple calculation; "I know I'll continue to drown with the Dems. I know this because that's exactly what they've promised; four more years of slowly drowning. With Trump, there's a chance that maybe he'll make things better. A chance is better than no chance."

Based on that calculation, they did exactly what you're asking them to do. They voted for the least bad option.

[–] Nightwingdragon 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This would be a valid argument for Trump 2016, when people had little to no clue what we were all in for.

But in 2024, Trump wasn't saying "I'll help you". Trump was actively campaigning on grabbing you by the legs and pulling you deeper underwater.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

This would be a valid argument for Trump 2016, when people had little to no clue what we were all in for.

People believe, first and foremost, the evidence of their own lived experiences. This isn't rational but it is how we're programmed to operate. And the lived experience of most voters is that, financially, they're doing worse under Biden than they were under Trump. They don't care that most of that was because of factors that weren't really directly connected to White House policy decisions (in the same way that the President doesn't control the price of gas); they just see that they are suffering, and feel that the people in charge must be responsible. It doesn't matter how terrible you tell them Trump's policies were compared to Bidens (and in case I somehow have to spell out my position here, yes, of course Trump's policies were terrible compared to Biden's) because they know how much money is in their bank account and that's really all that matters. Telling these people how much better off the country is doesn't mean shit if they're struggling to pay rent and buy groceries.

But in 2024, Trump wasn't saying "I'll help you". Trump was actively campaigning on grabbing you by the legs and pulling you deeper underwater.

Let's not be asinine. Of course Trump was saying "I'll help you." Yes, you and I have the context to examine his proposed solutions and immediately conclude that they will make things worse, but that's not a context that everyone shares. Like I already said, these people are drowning. Most people don't have enough understanding of policy to really judge the details of Trump's plans, and they don't have the time or attention to gain that understanding of policy. They're not interested in arguing over the details of how someone plans to save them, they just want to be saved. And they don't even have to be 100% convinced that Trump will be the better choice. Not even 50%, or 30%. What they are 100% convinced of, because it is the unquestionable evidence sitting right in front of them, is that they're poorer now than they were at the start of Biden's term, and that Harris, when asked what she would have done different, said "Not a thing." If there's even a 10% chance, in their eyes, that Trump's bullshit turns out to work, he's the better option, because it's obvious to them that there's a 0% chance that things will get better with the Dems. You can tell them all you like that Trump's policies are awful, but when the thing you propose instead is voting for the people who - as they see it - made things so much worse for them over the last four years, they're going to look at you like you're crazy.