Well I do think getting protein from many sources makes more sense and easier to obtain. Are there other options? Absolutely. But how available are they at all times and how much do I need to eat to get the same amount? I hear what you are saying by selfishness but we kind of have to be. It's what fuels this giant meat puppet I move around daily.

[–] Jon_Servo 22 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Many sources of protein

You think vegans just eat blocks of tofu all day? My diet has never been more varied and flavorful than when I went vegan. Every single environmental impact study says animal agriculture is a bane to our continued existence, and it goes so far beyond that. Our lands and crops are swallowed up by this ever-rotating machine of suffering and murder that affects the lives of billions of land animals every year, which die terrified and in pain. No "varied protein" myth is worth so much suffering.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And now it seems we can say the same with plants. Life per se is bad because it is based on a predatory scheme. We need to eat more living things in order to keep living...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#22: Plants have feelings too

No, they do not. There is no serious study to suggest that they do. Plants do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli. If you really care that much about the welfare of plants, you should go vegan, since many more plants "die" for animal feeding. Do you feel bad while mowing your lawn? And would you rather rescue a potted plant than a dog from a burning house? Is docking pig tails the same as branch trimming to you? Question upon question...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

you can't prove that plants don't have feelings.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

What do you want, commie? Stop wasting my time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

I just want people in c/science to stick to scientifically provable claims

[–] GladiusB -3 points 6 days ago (3 children)

No. One of my sisters is a vegan and we have had extensive talks about it. Yea garbanzo and peanut butter are great power packed availability. But peanut butter only goes so far. Garbanzo needs a massive amount to match isolated whey or anything close.

I totally agree with the environmental impact. I wish I could have locally sourced options that wouldn't impact the environment so much.

[–] Jon_Servo 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I love how micromanaging nutrition only ever comes up when veganism is mentioned. Do you think people who gorge themselves on steak and cheeseburgers are inherently healthier than someone with a vegan diet because they consume animal protein? You might be shocked to learn that the densest source of protein doesn't come from an animal.

EDIT: You DO have local sources available to you. It's in the same grocery store you buy slaughtered animals from.

[–] GladiusB -4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That isn't factual. The diversity of food is different in every area. And it doesn't come up just in veganism. Nutritionists and athletes talk about it often.

[–] Jon_Servo 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You can stop pretending that you're trying to advocate for people in food-starved areas. Veganism, believe it or not, has never actually been about trying to force people in marginalized areas to adopt a vegan diet. Veganism is about harm reduction, full stop. The people who appeal to veganism are the same people who can make those choices in any grocery store that they go to, whether they live in a food desert or not. Personally, I don't live in an area that's considered vegan-friendly. However, I find myself to be okay with that purely because I know for a fact that my decisions aren't reliant on convenience alone.

[–] GladiusB -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You can't pretend to know who I am and what I advocate for. I am ending this conversation now because it isn't from a place of understanding. It's coming off as angry.

[–] Jon_Servo 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I know exactly who you are. You are the lived experience of many vegans of the person that pretends to know more than us, as if every single person who went vegan didn't have a deep personal conflict with themselves before deciding to align their morality with their lifestyle. You know very little, yet try to advocate against us on our own perceived behalf, using your own sister like some sort of "I have a (insert group here) so I definitely know things". I don't need to understand you because I was you. The difference is that at some point, I was willing to acknowledge I didn't know enough about the moral vacancy of the situation and decided to learn more. The more I learned, the more I grew disgusted with our systemic murder of sentient life and how we didn't need this destructive mechanism to survive in any way, shape, or form.

[–] GladiusB 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm not advocating against you. I flat out don't agree with you and you are too close minded to think that someone has the same information as you and makes a different choice. You are no better. You aren't more ethical. You just pick on the people that don't agree with you to feel superior because you can't find it any other way. You're a sad person that can't hear when someone says "hey I get it" and not keep pressing on.

And the most pathetic and arrogant part about it is that you have the tenacity to state you know me from one conversation with one topic on the Internet. So close minded to not think a person has more meutia than a single topic. People are complex. You should open your intellect and think that someone can see differently.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Exploiting and murdering animals is unethical full stop.

[–] GladiusB 0 points 5 days ago

You are so forceful it's so badass. Even though you are wrong.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Local meat is not better for the environment. Scientific information is only one click away. Look at this graph, it's impressive. Plus:

Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#11 I only eat organic and regional

While seemingly 99% of people say this about themselves, the proportion of organic meat in virtually all western countries is less than 2%. Maybe you consciously buy organic products for the big feast, but then in everyday life you go get your weekly hamburger, the restaurant around the corner, or "just this once" prefer to reach for the somewhat cheaper discount products. Moreover, in organic farming, animals suffer and die in the same way. Organic cannot solve the core problems: Murder and exploitation for pleasure. The goal is more about soothing the conscience of consumers rather than actually helping the animals.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

this is just more poore-nemecek, a paper debunked by its own citations

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

lol, stop trolling. Nothing is real right? Animal suffering is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago

this is a science community. it's reasonable to expect people to provide good science.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Local meat is local murder.