this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
483 points (99.4% liked)

politics

19222 readers
2745 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

State charges included kidnapping, first-degree burglary and false imprisonment of husband of Nancy Pelosi

The man who was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison for attacking the husband of Nancy Pelosi with a hammer in their California home was sentenced on Tuesday to life in prison without the possibility of parole following a separate state trial.

A San Francisco jury in June found David DePape guilty of charges including aggravated kidnapping, first-degree burglary and false imprisonment of an elder.

Before issuing the sentence, Judge Harry Dorfman dismissed arguments from DePape’s attorneys that he be granted a new trial for the 2022 attack against Paul Pelosi, who was 82 years old at the time.

“It’s my intention that Mr DePape will never get out of prison, he can never be paroled,” Dorfman said while handing out the punishment.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Feathercrown 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You definitely have some good ideas about an alternative system, but you also have some nonsense in that first paragraph.

Thank you, and yeah some of that post was a little shaky, I didn't proofread it much.

The idea of someone deserving punishment is inherently dehumanizing. It’s not possible to punish someone unless they are beneath you. Thinking another human is lesser than you defines them as less than human.

I disagree that it's not possible to punish someone unless they are beneath you. Firstly, a group could punish someone who is equal to any given member of the group. But mostly, I think your definition of dehumanization might be too strict, although your argument is consistent if I take that definition to be true. To consider someone punishable, they do generally need to be beneath you in some sort of power structure, but that doesn't make them less than human. Is a child less human than a parent? A boss more human than an employee? A follower less human than a leader? You can easily advocate for universal human rights and general equality while creating punishments for those who violate the peace or cross moral lines. Someone who is punished isn't given that punishment because they're less than human, they're given that punishment because they did something wrong-- a rule that applies to every human equally. To allow them to violate the social order and harm others without consequences would in fact put them higher on a hierarchy than everyone else, and by your logic dehumanize everyone else!

There are no “evil people” there are only evil actions. Every single person has the capacity for evil. We’re going to be stuck where we’re at until we collectively recognize that truth.

Everyone has the capacity for both good and evil, but some people consistently choose one over the other. I believe someone who consistently chooses to be evil can be usefully categorized as an "evil person", even though they can change. And we should give them as much of an opportunity to change as we can. But if that doesn't work, are we to allow them to continue to do evil in hopes that they'll turn good eventually?

Hard lines of behavior? That’s just what laws are, like we currently have.

I meant on a more personal level, we should have less tolerance for behavior that's unfair, deceptive, malicious, etc. Social enforcement is powerful but people are reluctant to do it (and understandably so).

Seriously though, “hard lines of behavior” is an extremely authoritarian phrase.

I try not to concern myself with what categories my personal beliefs fall into because I think that limits the way in which you can think about things. I wouldn't categorize myself as an authoritarian but I'm sure I have some views that go towards that territory. I don't consider a passing similarity to concepts used for bad purposes to be damning, though. If it's bad in the context of my usage, it will be apparent without the need to compare it to existing systems of thought. That sounds a bit conceited but mostly it's that I want to avoid arguing about beliefs that I don't hold that are seen as related to the ones that I do hold in some way.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yes, protecting people is always the first priority, otherwise there just wouldn't be a justice system. That doesn't mean punishing people for wrongdoings.

Yes, I think hierarchy is bad in general, it defines people as not equal. You can't have a hierarchy of equal members. It has lead to those higher up thinking the laws for us don't fully apply to them, either because we're less than human or because they're more than human. Even the hierarchy of parents has turned children into property instead of, again, people who need help. It might even be why people are more tolerant of shitty behavior, because they don't feel high up enough in the hierarchy to be able to do anything about it.

Part of the critique of that phrase is its seeming dismissal of context and nuance. Authoritarianism isn't really a system of thought, but even without mentioning that, you're going to have a tough time drawing hard lines around behavior without infringing on valid personal freedoms. Though, in general, seeing how your beliefs map onto different ideas is a good way to interrogate yourself and try to determine if you should keep that belief as is. If an idea of yours seems to tie in with a system of thought you're opposed to, maybe ask yourself why that is and what aspects you identify with versus the aspects you can do without.

[–] Feathercrown 2 points 1 month ago

I don't really have much more to say on this subject but I appreciate your responses, they're well thought out and helpful for thinking about these subjects.