this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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And Finally...

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Conservative MP Neil O'Brien has set out a list of policies to make Britain "vaguely civilised again" including "large and instant fines" for passengers playing music on public transport and a "crackdown on spitting".

The Leicestershire MP also called for action to stop e-scooters being " dumped across pavements" and a push to plant trees on every residential street "where this is remotely possible".

O'Brien was a minister in the previous Conservative government and is an influential thinker in the party, as the former head of the Policy Exchange think tank.

In a Substack article,, external O'Brien argued the desire to live in a "civilised, orderly society" was "one of the most under-discussed and under-appreciated things in politics".

"It is something often promised by politicians - but in my lifetime it has not been delivered."

...

Speaking to the BBC, O'Brien singled out street artist Banksy for criticism. He said his work was "valorising" graffiti.

"Graffiti is not art, it's a massive nuisance, it creates a really disorderly atmosphere.

"People have done everything they can to make their place, perhaps a business or shop, nice then some moron sprays paint all over it."

...

Matt Ashby, a crime science lecturer at University College London, says many of the actions O'Brien proposes would require "substantial investment in public services".

...

O'Brien acknowledged in his piece that the Conservative-led government cut the number of police and although the overall levels were later restored, Ashby says cuts to Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) were not.

"Compared to 2010, right now we only have 44% of the PCSOs."

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm sold on the no music on public transport thing, having some basic consideration for the people around you should be mandatory.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah but the "instant, large fines" are going to be difficult. Especially if your ringtone is a song...

The trees idea was nice. The rest is very typical grievance politics.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It would be pretty obvious if someone's phone is ringing versus them listening to music.

Also, confiscate the device until the fine is paid.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting 6 points 1 week ago

The phone? The actual device most people use to access their money?

Nobody's going to bat for antisocial behaviour here, but we would need more of a think about the practicalities of such a law.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah! But who enforces it. Bus drivers have enough shit to deal with. Plus, do we really want non law enforcement issuing fines.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They have police on public transport in the UK, no reason we can't do it here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

Only on trains not busses. And this is talking about the UK.

And even on trains transportation police have limited power / jurisdiction. Yes, if this was discussing fines for music on trains they would do it, We already have train carriages that require this. The transportation police can kick folks off, but it rarely happens. Due to lack of police.

But this MP was specifically talking about buses. No, we do not have police on buses just a single driver sometimes but very rarely a ticket collector or inspector but again with no legal power past calling the police.