633
We'll have a long memory as things get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2024
633 points (73.5% liked)
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No, the blame lies squarely on the DNC for deliberately ignoring the loud and clear message from third party voters that genocide is a red line in the sand. The blame further lies with the liberals supporting a decaying Empire and never lifting a finger to help anyone, just showing up at the ballot box every 4 years while the US commits manmade horrors beyond comprehension.
Join an org, like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO), this mess can't be undone by supporting the Dems harder.
Unfortunately, it's not a "red line in the sand," no matter how much you keep repeating it. While a majority of people in the US disapprove of Israel's actions, a tiny fraction of voters (less than 2%) consider it their primary voting issue, an even smaller fraction of that number would consider withholding their vote or voting third party over it.
While you may not like it, it's not the major concern for American voters. If you'd like to withhold your vote or vote third party about it, be my guest. The only likely scenario that would result from that would helping Trump get elected. If you're honestly concerned about Palestinians, you'd be wise enough to not enable an even worse situation for them. There's a reason Israel's leadership wants Trump to win and encourages the left to revolt about Palestine.
You're getting played by Israel, who is using your short-sighted feels to enable them to enact long-term reals, which in their case might very well be the full extermination and displacement of all of Palestine. To truly bring that into being, they, at they very least, need Trump to win. Fundamentally you are siding with Israel over Palestinians, and the immediate sense of moral superiority you feel about it is precisely how you're being manipulated.
Read your history. Using the left's lack of political pragmatism to aid in hard-right political takeover isn't new. Your Bush-ist "you're either with us or against us" simplification of the world and political calculus makes you an easy mark. You are, quite literally, a tool of Israel at this point.
And the best part, from Israel's point of view, is you get to feel good about it. Win-win (for Israel). You're trying to march Palestine right into the grave while telling them you're helping them the whole way.
It's a red line in the sand if voters make it so.
Secondly, the idea that Israel is depending on the Repblicans winning is hilarious. Biden has given them everything they want, including approving the Lebanon invasion. The genocide is bipartisan.
I think you're going to by sadly surprised about how bad things can get. The limits of your long-term imagination and the narrowed view upon which you prevail are a little surprising. But, then again, you're literally helping the Israeli state, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
You're signing off on everything the US Empire and Israel wants, what's surprising is that you can't see that.
Whatever helps you sleep better at night while you help Israel commit genocide.
Whatever helps you sleep better at night while you help Israel commit genocide.
You've reached the "I know you are but what am I" level of childishness. That speaks volumes.
You failed to make any coherent point, and everything you said could be reflected back because of it. I already explained that the Dems are giving Israel everything they want, you just played ignorant like Trump has fascist magic on his side to really help the IDF out.
Believe it or not, I only tell people to read Marx when it's relevant, like when someone tries to pretend to know what Marxists think. For the majority of my arguments, I don't need to reference Marx, and answer accordingly.
How will trump be worse for Palestinians? Give an example.
WoahWoah, If you truly beleive in minimizing the murder of the Palestinians, why isnt pressuring Harris to change her policy position something you'll support? Why get on here and trashtalk progressives into letting Harris have her cake and eat it too?
Theres a big difference between aiding a genocide vs not showing up to stop one. Are you pretending we are merely being neutral in this Israeli genocide? Thats absurd at best and dishonest at worst.
Progressives are asking for the weapons shipments to stop, and Harris gets the votes to win.
Progressives aren't asking the Dems to commit to even trying to stop the genocide. Progressives are asking Dems to stop actively facilitating and arguably participating in it.
I'm not moving any goalposts. Your entire argument assumes that the US is providing military aid to China, knowing that said aid is used to commit genocide. They aren't.
Your use of the term "Hamas Muslims," however, is very telling.
My God, you are just completely insufferable. Serves me right for engaging with you.
Hamas is not the same as Palestine. Israel is committing genocide on Palestinians. There is a difference between America allowing Chinese goods and industry in America and America directly providing military aid that Israel is using to commit genocide on Palestinians. And your conflating Palestinians and Hamas is ridiculously ignorant at best, and intentional at worst.
I admit I was a fool for trying to communicate with someone so willing to put words in other's mouths. I should know better.
Tell you what, you let me know when the US ships weapons to China that help them commit the genocide, gives China gobs of "aid money," and repeatedly provides cover for China at the UN. Because until then, the US won't be treating China the way it's treating Israel. Yes, both are bad. One shows far more complicity than the other.
Are you trolling?
Have you ever wondered what thoughts must go through a person's mind after making just the worst decision in their lives? Like a father who fell asleep at the wheel because he didn't want to stop at a motel to save a few bucks, and now he's in the ICU watching his wife and child slowly dying in front of him?
That's gonna be you if Trump gets elected. Good luck with that.
Your idea of the "worst decision of their lives" is forced on Palestinians daily because of the party you support.
Yeah dude, it would totally make sense to listen to all 3% of those third party voters over the 97% of people who aren't stupid enough to throw their vote away in such a dumb fashion. That's how you win elections!
about 1/3 of americans of voting age do not vote. its not just that 3% who are unmoved by the two options served up by the decaying US political system
If the Democrats don't want votes, then it's on them when they lose, not voters.
Someday I hope you'll get over your hatred of Marxism and Marxists.
You were never a Marxist if you think along those lines, lmao. Explain Dialectical and Historical Matetialism, the basics of Marxism.
Because you can't. Marxists are entirely different from fascists, read Blackshirts and Reds.