26
Analysis | The problem for third parties? America is not a political free market.
(www.washingtonpost.com)
this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2024
26 points (82.5% liked)
politics
19068 readers
4790 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is an older article, but it's relevant to what's going on right now. My analysis follows in this comment:
Third Parties don't work in the USA. Quite simply, it goes back to my whole '100 kid SGA election' example. Even if Bookish Girl was 100% legit and was really running to keep Nerd Boy from winning because he's actually a bad guy, he'd be a spoiler to her if she was the one with 48 votes behind her name and bookish nerd boy had 3 voting for him. But the example of being picked by Cheerleader to siphon away 3 votes from Nerd Boy so Cheerleader could win is exactly how Jill Stein and the Green Party are working. It was exactly how (RFK) Junior was running, until it became clear he was going to attract more votes from Trump than Harris, and what is he doing? Getting out of the race so he doesn't get Harrs elected!
Third parties have the problem of not forming a broad consensus. Americans are stuck in their ways, and like their parties. Even the liberals are conservative in the notion of 'going with what just works.' Forming a broad consensus is necessary to win in the model of government we have, which is why we've had two major parties since right after our founding.
There is a real faction of 'ratfuckers' who are here to split our vote and disrupt our election. Their goal is the conversion of the USA into a Fascist state, and they will use every tool in the box to fuck us out of our votes and fuck us into the Fascist state they want, and Third Parties are one of those tools.
If you want real change to the USA, you've got to do what Trumpets did -- take over the other major party in America, build a coalition by growing beyond your single issue, and slowly but surely turn the party into the vehicle for your ideals. If you can't convince more than a fringe party that your ideas are good and worth running on, you won't win in America, or, frankly, anywhere else.
Inb4 .ml downvote brigade arrives :/
It’s really frustrating knowing how many people just refuse to understand the 3p dynamic here in the states, and as a result, vote in ways that are ultimately actively harmful to their own interests and goals.
I find that they get outshouted roughly on a 2 to 1 ratio if engagement from the rest of Lemmy is good about posting/interacting. That tells me I'm doing a better job of connecting to people and pushing the ideas I want pushed. It's a small effort, but I'm just one person, but if we end up with Harris this November and Trump and his shitheads are sent packing, all's good, as an old German textbook I had was titled ("Alles Gute" but same deference).
Thanks for replying!
I would go so far as to say that we are increasingly seeing, globally, that "third parties don't work" period.
I think it was France where, just a month or two back, basically the entire Left had to unite to prevent the country from descending into fascism (and... jury is still out on whether they succeeded). And we have seen similar in other parliamentary governments where third parties historically thrive.
Because if one side of the political spectrum has twenty different parties each with different goals but the other side has basically one party? Guess which one wins?
Which... is not dissimilar from what we already see. republicans are basically united around christofascism. Democrats are constantly at each other's throats over what gets funded and what doesn't. And that is why it is a constant struggle to unite people enough to make a difference. Like, while I have issues with how things were handled (by all sides), Sanders swallowing his pride and actually running as a Democrat (rather than abusing party swapping to get rid of competition in local elections...) was massively important for shifting the DNC a lot farther Left. Could have been better but...
Oh, that username hits me right in the fails. Let me guess. The rest of it is 'missed the shot, awakened the whole pod, and my squad went down in a hail of alien gunfire'? 🤣
Anyway, yeah, I pointed France out in another post. Third Parties end up hurting the majority party closest to them on the scale, and cause the country to fall to the opposite Major Party. In the best of circumstances, it results in things you hold dear to be torn down and things you detest to be built up, and when the opposite party has a heavy xenophobic fascist core? Well, people far closer to home to you than any Palestinian ever could be will suffer, as will you yourself. It's fine if you can make yourself into a martyr alone (fly over to Gaza and help them directly), but when you make other people into victims because your chosen faction wasn't put ahead of everyone else? That is serious psychopath behaviour right there.
Palestine I think... is a massive mess for a LOT of historical and well documented reasons.
But it also very much highlighted that people don't really even understand how to be a single issue voter. If you are pro-Palestine above all else? Good for you. Vote in your interests.
But even then, I am not aware of ANY election in the past year where it was "Pro-Palestine vs Anti-Palestine". it was more "Anti-Palestine vs Pro-Genocide". But, especially in the US, there was this idea that Biden deserved to lose because he was Anti-Palestine without any willingness to acknowledge that trump is pro-genocide.
Which gets back to why it is so much easier for one side (generally right wing) to unify. Because WE all want something and want to get it. They just want to make sure others DON'T get something.
I don't disagree that Palestine is a big mess and we're not so much pro-Palestine as anti-Project 2025. I don't want to see Palestinians killed. That's why I'm voting Democrat, because historical precedence shows that one of two candidates will take office in November: The Republican (who has promised to accelerate Israel's murder and subjugation of the Palestinians) or the Democrat. Yes, I'd like an option besides the Republican and the Democrat, but until we dispose of the Electoral College AND get something like RCV, the only path to less genocide in Israel is Democrats, even if they are more wishy-washy on opposing Israel's murder and subjugation of Palestine. But all it takes is a few tens of thousands of people to be hoodwinked into voting third party in bitterly divided swing states and we all get Project 2025.
Well put. I'll also add that in left-leaning communities there's almost always more attention being paid to dark money flowing into our elections from groups like AIPAC than there is being paid to dark money flowing into our elections via third parties. Dark money is certainly a corrupting influence if it gets injected directly into the campaign process for one of the two major parties, but it's equally troublesome that third parties are frequently (if not always) funded from the ground up by an opposing party specifically for the purpose of ratfucking an election. Whether or not third parties are in on the game or simply willingly ignorant stooges, their effect is always the same. And the fact that they're essentially invisible except during presidential election cycles provides a strong bit of evidence for the latter.
Yep. Dark Money is bad no matter what it funds. I'll call Dems out on that BS too.
I guess a downvote troll likes Dark Money in elections! XD