this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
67 points (73.4% liked)

politics

19133 readers
7459 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Viking_Hippie 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Biden has repeatedly stated, correctly, that Israel has the right to defend itself, as any other nation does

Yes, but that's demonstrably NOT what they're doing and he knows it for a fact.

The funding is intended for that defense

That's the official Hasbara gaslighting, sure, but it's obviously not the truth.

Now, what Israel does with that support after we give it to them? That's on them.

Not when it's known beforehand. Again: providing weapons that you have reason to suspect MIGHT be used to commit war crimes is illegal according to both US and international law.

In the case of Israel, it's far beyond a reasonable suspicion, it's an absolute CERTAINTY.

We made the good faith donation

No. If it had been in good faith, it would have stopped the moment there was evidence that it was being used for anything else than the stated purpose. That point was DECADES ago and the weapons are still coming.

they're the one abusing it.

Again: Biden KNOWS without a shadow of a doubt what they're using them for. He would have to be sundowning as badly as the worst Republican conspiracy theories claim he is to not know. And he isn't.

That does not make Biden complicit in Israel's crimes.

Yeah, it ABSOLUTELY does. He KNOWS what those weapons are used for and still he keeps sending them. That he's unconvincingly pretending not to isn't a valid excuse and thus doesn't absolve him of his complicity.

[–] jordanlund 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What Biden knows is irrelevant. He's providing the support in good faith, Israel is abusing it. Specifically Bibi is abusing it. That is not Biden's fault.

[–] Viking_Hippie 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What Biden knows is irrelevant. He's providing the support in good faith

That's not how good faith works. Good faith is when you do something benevolent thinking that your actions aren't going to have negative repercussions.

The fact that he KNOWS that to not be the case means that he is NOT acting in good faith.

Putting a "for self defense only, not genocide" sticker on a bomb that you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt is going to be used to commit genocide does NOT absolve you of your responsibility to not knowingly contribute to the genocide.

Specifically Bibi is abusing it. That is not Biden's fault.

Right about the first part, wrong about the second.

While it's of course PRIMARILY the fault of Netanyahu, the fact that Biden knows and still keeps the weapons coming makes him an indispensable accessory to Netanyahu's crimes against humanity.

Without weapons there is no genocide. Most of the weapons come from the US. Ergo, without the US there is at WORST a genocide of a much smaller scale.

[–] jordanlund 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

noun: good faith

honesty or sincerity of intention.

"the details contained in this brochure have been published in good faith"

Biden believes, legitimately believes, Israel has the right to defend itself and provided honest and sincere support with that intent.

That is NOT the same as actively engaging in genocide.

[–] Viking_Hippie 1 points 3 months ago

Biden believes, legitimately believes, Israel has the right to defend itself and provided honest and sincere support with that intent.

That's all well and good, but when he knows that they're being used for genocide and STILL sends them, his stated intent doesn't matter since he KNOWS that it's not going to be fulfilled.

To go back to your own analogy about lunch/drug money:

If you give a guy $20 a day for lunch every day and every day you see him spending that money on drugs, how long can you keep watching the originally unintended consequence of your generosity before putting two and two together and realizing that what you're doing is paying for drugs, no matter how much either of you pretends that you're just giving him lunch money?