this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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Dutch beach volleyball player Steven van de Velde, who served time in prison after he was convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl, won his second match at the Paris Olympics and received an even harsher reaction from the crowd on Wednesday than for his first match.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Not saying it's right, but for context:

One legal distinction is that Van de Velde is unlikely to have been convicted of rape had he stood trial in the Netherlands rather than England. In England, sex with a 12-year-old is rape, regardless of the circumstances: an under-16 cannot legally consent. But after he was extradited to the Netherlands, having serving almost a year of his prison sentence, he was released after less than a month. Under Dutch law, his crime was deemed to be the lesser offence of ontucht, sexual acts that violate social-ethical norms.

From https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/30/netherlands-child-rapist-olympics-steven-van-de-velde

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

That, combined with him being on the Olympic team, sorta makes me concerned about Dutch people

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

I'm not sure what the law ought to be though. I personally think a 16 year old should be legally able to have sex with their 15 year old partner. Maybe in england the difference in age matters. But if not, and a 15 year old legally cannot consent, is this hypothetical 16 year old now a rapist? That doesn't sound right to me.

A 19 year old having sex with a 12 year old? That is clearly wrong and that's rightfully already illegal here. But it's not automatically rape because Dutch law does recognize consent from people under 16. I have no idea at what age people can give consent though. I'm not sure if there is a minimum. But if the 12 year old in this situation did not consent then it would obviously be rape, just to make that clear.

A question: what is the situation in other countries with high schoolers having sex? It must happen all the time that some 18 year old is dating a 15 year old and that they have sex. I think the overwhelming majority of Dutch people would not want that to be illegal, let alone considered rape.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

surely giving a 12 year old alcohol beforehand is evidence of rape, right?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Just to be very clear I'm not defending him in the slightest, this whole thing is horrible and I agree he raped her.

I was just explaining the situation and the differences in law in England and the Netherlands.

While I agree that this crime should definitely fall within the definition and corresponding punishment of rape, I don't agree that no 15 year old can ever consent to sex.

[–] HereIAm 5 points 4 months ago

Some countries have a "Romeo and Juliet" law that allows consent when the age gap is close. The UK does not have this, and someone under 16 cannot legally consent to sexual activity at all as far as I understand it.

[–] Krzd 3 points 3 months ago

In Germany you can have sex with 14, everything below that is illegal (however the courts can decide not to prosecute if the involved persons both consented, are both under the age of 14, and very close in mental development). Between 14 and 16 you can have sex with people your age ±2 years (14 with 16 or 16 with 18, but not 14 with 17). At 16 to 18 it's I believe ±3 years, so that with 17 you can have sex with persons up to 20 years old, even though you're a minor and they're adults. There are exceptions to this, most notably that if they have any power over you (teachers, bosses, etc), it will count as statutory rape as it's argued that the victim didn't have the possibility to refuse without fear of consequences.

[–] psycho_driver 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In the US generally people under the age of consent are allowed to have sex with one another though exceptions would be made if the age gap was too large. People the age of consent and older are not allowed to have sex with people below the age of consent, unless they're married.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Wait so you can get married under the age of consent? That seems completely illogical... if you can't consent to sex surely you can't consent to marriage?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

It is illogical but the people who support it aren’t our best.

We’re usually talking very fundamentalist christian sects and right wing politicians in the vein of Roy Moore.

[–] psycho_driver 1 points 3 months ago

The parents have to consent to the marriage if the person is underage.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago

Oh, Indonesians have some, ahem, concerning stories for you.

[–] psycho_driver 5 points 3 months ago

He didn't rape a Dutch 12 year old. He flew to England and raped an English 12 year old. Eight years was getting off pretty easy to begin with.