News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
So they fight like US revolutionaries, the insurgents who fought back against nazi invaders in WWII, and pretty much every population that is being overwhelmed by superior numbers during wartime.
Why is that a bad thing when defending against invaders? Like yeah, it would be pretty shitty for invaders to do that, but pretty reasonable as a defensive tactic.
I hope you do understand that all you just said totally contradicts the genocide narrative , right?
You can say its not a bad thing, but then you cant complain about the high civilian casualties.
Actually he can do both. The argument that Israeli forces have to go into these areas due to some immediate, imminent threat is not credible.
There’s no reasonable way to draw out an insurgent force embedded in a civilian population, and insurgents will always use that to their advantage. The invading force will always create a new generation of insurgents as they are forced to abuse the general population to root out their enemy.
I do understand your frustration if you support Israel in this conflict, because the IDF going in paints them very much the bad guy. But as an american whose country went in and rooted around both Iraq and Afghanistan, we were the bad guy, we created new generations of terrorists in our wars, and Israel is doing the same.
Its not an imminent thread. Its like people forgot theres a terrorist organization there holding 120 israeli women, children, babies, etc… and not giving them back. Somehow Israel is going to get them back eventually. The cost of Palestinians lives is solely determined by who is holding those hostages.
Hostages you say?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
The important thing to keep in mind is that the conflict did not start on Octover 7th and the whole situation was escalating. Yes, Hamas committed war crimes and that is terrible, but that does not justify all of the war crimes that Israel has committed onto Hamas.
If you're going to go that BS route then own up to the fact that Palestine et al started the conflict within a week after the formation of Israel. It's been random acts of terrorism with periodic legit wars for almost a century since.
Hamas etc needs to start understanding Israel doesn't care about justifying war crimes. They want their hostages back and for this BS to end... completely. If that means they pile up martyrs until the count is so high there are no more future martyrs to find then they are okay with that. Anyone that truly wants to avoid that outcome needs to call for an end to this Jihad nonsense, for the release of the hostages, and for UN intervention to force a 2 state solution that neither party is happy with but can tolerate because otherwise it will be a 1 state solution that Israel is happy with and everyone else is ashamed of.
Palestine started the conflict when Israel was founded by taking land in Palestine by force.
That isn't the great point you might think that it is.
No it doesn’t?
Them fighting back by any means does not contradict they Israel today has gone from merely oppressing and murdering innocent people on a whim to actively trying to destroy every bit of medical aid, sanitation, food supply, etc to wipe out the Palestinian people.
No, it doesn't contradict anything about the genocide.
Israel didn't need to completely destroy infrastructure and also deny foreign aid because of how Hamas fights. How Hamas fights doesn't justify the IDF killing reporters, or the unarmed children being gunned in the streets, or strapping injured Palestinians to hoods, or atracking aid workers that the IDF knew were coming through, or the most likely true reports of torture. We know all of this is intentional by how Israel acts, and they are using the excuse that civilian casualties are happening despite the IDF being careful, but they keep killing dozens of civilians and getting caught lying about things which is why they are not trustworthy.
Plus Israeli senior leadership has made and keeps making statements consistent with genocide that align with their actions. All of that would still be genocide even if Hamas fought some other 'acceptsble' way.
So let me ask you this, Do you think Abdalla Aljamali the “innocent” journalist would still be dead and all his children and family given they wouldnt have held Israeli hostages IN THEIR FUCKING HOUSE with their children separated only by carpet and sheets?
I think he would have, and all his family and children would have lived today.
Now explain away the IDF killing Issam Abdallah who was standing by a news van in Jordan.
Or the attack on the World Central Kitchen aid convoy.
Guess they shouldn't have had hostages in their homes!
The attack on the central kitchen convoy was a horrible mistake. The government itself said they were sorry. I personally feel ashamed of that incident.
Not sure about the first one.
I dont see though how these two contradict what I said or take any blame from hammas fighting within civilian population on purpuse. It can indeed explain that because of how hammas fights the IDF is on the edge and mistakes are bound to happen.
They said the same thing about USS Liberty.
How insightful... I can vividly remember the allies releasing statements saying how they wanted to kill an entire group of people based solely on ethnoreligious identity...
Almost like employing guerilla warfare doesn't simply equate Hamas to those fighting Nazis. I see many more differences between the two and their tactics. This comparison is unfounded.
Additionally, I don't recall anyone claiming the allies used human shields during their guerilla warfare tactics...
https://stratcomcoe.org/publications/hybrid-threats-hamas-use-of-human-shields-in-gaza/87
Funny enough your comparison falls flat on it's head when confronted with:
https://www.justsecurity.org/27005/human-shields-weapon-strong/
There isn't a legitimate way to equate the two, and history demonstrates the differences. You present one paragraph from the article depicting how Hamas blurs the line between combatant and civilian, and offer absolutely no evidence suggesting in the slightest that your comparisons hold any weight. I'm somehow obligated to provide sources for my claims, yet you're not. This is not the kind of discussion I think is worthwhile in this sub, and lazy at that.
Edit: here's a novel thought... Instead of down voting factual information, perhaps someone can do the above user's homework and get them some sources. If I were a mod, I would view this as misinformation attempting to equate Hamas and the allies in WW2 (I'm not spending all the time to disprove every other comparison when this user is not required to back up their statements in any form). I recommend the mods discuss whether this is the kind of commentary they want in their sub, and how it may unfairly impact users who go through the work of sourcing their claims.
You quoted the article saying Hamas blurs the lines between civilians and combatants, and used that to compare the allies in WW2 to Hamas. You make no mention of this only involving guerilla warfare in such a narrow way, and you did not restrict your comparison to that alone in your comment. The quote (and article) clearly encompasses a wider view of the tactics in that sense, and in my opinion is not doing any justice to the comparison you're making now.
Thank you for your concern with my reading comprehension, but based on your words, I feel my response is appropriate. Now that you have clarified your position, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not attempting to characterize the allies were fighting like Hamas as the article further elaborates, but in a much more narrow, less obvious and in my opinion less meaningful sense since I haven't read any article criticizing Hamas simply of employing guerilla warfare in the way you're using it, but in that this is a deliberate use of human shielding and prolonging of Palestinian suffering, as I've cited.
I didn't clearly say my comment wasn't about every other possible thing? It wasn't about child labor laws or women's suffrage either.
I onky stated it in a narrow way and you read things into it that weren't there. That is on you.
I read your quote, along with the entire article, which is the subject of discussion. Choose a better quote next time, one that maybe expresses what you're trying to say. What you failed to do was specify what you meant by how they're fighting, and after reading the article (which I trust you also did) and the quote (introductory paragraph of the article) you chose to back up what you meant, I would find little reason to think that you're referencing any other form of warfare than what is described in the article.
Goodbye, I refuse to speak to you anymore.
That is appreciated, thanks!
Wait wait wait... You're saying disguising combatants as civilians and using civilians as shields is bad because it directly results in a huge increase in civilian casualties? But that means you see how Israel might not be gratuitously committing genocide but rather it being an unfortunate side effect of the terrorist's strategy!
So the French Resistance in WWII, where they hid weapons of war in their homes and businesses to blend in with the population while hiding from nazis were just terrorists trying to increase civilian casualties? Would you consider their fellow citizens to be human shields?
Maybe Isreal's narrative about 'human shields' is bullshit. Especially after they got caught strapping Palestinian prisoners to the hoods of IDF vehicles.
The difference ofc being that the French Resistance didn't cry for sympathy when a Tiger tank plowed through their building. They knew and accepted the risks. Also, they didn't start the war. Also also they hid the equipment in THEIR buildings and homes and not every school/hospital/nursery they could find.
Yes, the difference is all the things I wasn't talking about.
Did someone say "by design?"