It's educate, AGITATE, organize
edit: putting this at the top so people understand the basis for this:
You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.
Did you get an opportunity to suggest realistic alternatives? Or did the Democratic party steamroll your local primary and rob you of your voice?
I did. I suggested Bernie. Not enough people agreed with me, apparently.
Thats lucky, we were not given any choices in my state, we had no discussion, no primary debates, and no discussion as to the viability of running with Biden.
I love Bernie, but his real shot was 2016 and the Dems blocked his path so they would not have to have a real vote which would have embarrassed Hillary.
His real shot was 2020, and he got outpolitiked.
and now you have to work with the representative you ended up with, just like the rest of us.
Unlike you, however, I'm working to keep the fascist from being my next representative. Seems that having a fascist at the head of our government doesn't bother you all that much. You might want to do some soul-searching as to why that is.
It bothers me, but it also bothers me that my own representative is supporting fascism himself.
It clearly doesn't bother you enough to stop you from working to see the fascist elected so the representative supporting longstanding-but-dogshite-foreign-policy can 'learn his lesson'.
I don't think he ought to lose because of this issue, I think he'll lose because of this issue all on his own.
You're free to disagree with the method of agitation but it comforts me (barely) that you would at least still support him if he were to change his position on this. It's my bet most people on the fence would, too.
No, you don't think he 'ought' to, you're just Doing Your Part to make sure he does. Like drilling holes in a boat to protest the captain bailing water instead of filling the holes.
SUNKEN SHIP 2024
This is such a terrible metaphor. A good metaphor is one that cant easily be reversed.
Example: Netanyahu is drilling holes, and I'm (both) bailing water (by voting) and also yelling at Biden he should stop Netanyahu, and Biden is sitting calmly on the other side of the boat denying any holes are being drilled at all.
What
In what fucking English class did you learn that in
In the one about derailing threads when you've not a leg to stand on.
Maybe 'good' is too vague. Maybe 'convincing' is more accurate.
A good metaphor can be reversed because a metaphors are inherently flexible. I have trouble thinking of a metaphor that can't be reversed. Care to give any examples?
No, because I don't think metaphors are particularly effective at communicating a point.
So your entire point was just to deflect that you had no answer to the metaphor because you realize it's apt. Cool cool cool.
Only you are not in a position to bale water, and so aren't, but Biden is, and so is. So not sure your pedantry holds up plus quit trying to derail the thread.
Oh look, another variation of the same metaphor saying something completely different than the others.
The point is that the metaphor isn't a very compelling one; you're not doing well to show otherwise.
Just because someone does not want to vote for Biden does not mean they want Trump to win. That is a reductive argument and its the root of the issue with the system in the US. Picking the lesser evil is not a viable method for electing people to positions of power. What if the dems also nominated someone openly fascist, not just genocidal?
Would we pick the least fascist, fascist? The Democratic party needs reform, and unlike the Republican party they might actually listen because they at least say they will. Its either that or were already in a fascism and were being gas lit by the democratic party to think we have a voice.
If you choose not to decide, others shall choose for you. Others as in the Evangelical Nat-Cs, they always Vote.
But do please drone on about your purity and how sullied and corrupt all of us in the real world are.
Might not be what they want, but it's more likely what they'll get.
It is in fact what they are choosing to make more likely by promoting not participating. You go to effort for goals you wish to achieve regardless of what lie you tell and to whom about your intent.
Just because they don't want to vote for Biden doesn't mean they're not voting for him anyway.
Yep, and its a real issue that I have to wrestle with in my own decisions. The good news is my state wont go for Biden because were gerrymandered to hell and back so I can vote however I want.
That hardly seems like "good news."
No shit, its been hard watching my freedom, and my voice slowly being eroded by the fascists over the last 30 years.
In that time I have only ONCE missed an election, and I have never had my vote elect a single person with the exception of the city council. Its hard to keep going when you have been disenfranchised for most of your life.
False. I know because I asked OK about Abortion protections.
Oh, yes it fucking does. That's what a FPTP system implies. That people failed High School Civics and seemingly still managed to get their degree isn't a refutation of this.
It's the only means; it's just more naked under FPTP which effectively reduces the issue to two, instead of three or four.
It's not the case, so suck it the fuck up and work against fascism.
If it was the case, the right decision would be revolt.
Being told that voting strategically for the 'no' vote in an election that is effectively a referendum on whether or not America should become a fascist state is the only real choice is not 'fascism', unless you define fascism as 'reality'.
I find this situation unacceptable, I will not be held hostage to the democrats because they cant be bothered to enact real reform when they should have, nor when they bent over backwards to let the court be stacked by fascists.
Were here, because of them, the republicans have been crystal clear since basically Nixon that their goal is a white christian fascist state. I cannot and will not continue to reward a do nothing party when they manufactured this situation to force me to vote for them because the "other guy" is worse.
I also will keep fighting fascism, but I will NOT pick up the democrat's flag and wave it as though I support them.
If not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump, then its the Democrats fault because they ran Biden, not mine. I will vote my conscience, and I will vote based on the best evidence in-front of me.
If the Democrats want me to vote for them, they know where I am, and they are more than welcome to reach out and talk to me and listen.
Liar. At no point could anything more like "real reform", regardless of what you mean by the vague term, get passed. You are making excuses and sound far more like you are pushing a narrative than supporting a position.
But perhaps I am too harsh. Please do tell of this "real reform" so we can understand your issue. Be specific and include detailed explanation as to how this thing could have been done at any time in the past four decades.
More likely however, you're agitprop project apathy third party is a fail.
We can start with recent history first:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/21/filibuster-voting-rights-manchin-sinema/ The democrats have not had the balls to stop filibuster abuse
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624467256/what-happened-with-merrick-garland-in-2016-and-why-it-matters-now The Democrats did watched as a justice appointment was stolen, and did nothing substantial.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democrats-used-rail-against-dark-money-now-they-re-better-n1239830 Remember Citizens United, and how we all knew that it would open the flood gates to dark money... Well now that the Democrats are on the receiving end you will notice how silent they are about any campaign finance reform beyond lip-service.
What about the two most important redistricting, where were the democrats in protecting voting rights and fair elections? The Heritage Foundation enacted a plan to sweep red leaning people into key positions throughout the US in 2000 and again 2010.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/685691 https://www.vox.com/22961590/redistricting-gerrymandering-house-2022-midterms
So much of this goes back as far as the 1920's https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1901-1950/The-Permanent-Apportionment-Act-of-1929/
So, what real reforms do I want, and have I been pushing for at local to state levels?
Its crazy, that I would ask the Democratic party to enact actual democratic policy that protects, and encourages citizen participation.
"have not had the balls", you mean Votes. They have not had the Votes.
"watched as a justice appointment was stolen", again you mean, didn't have the Votes to do anything to stop it, Senate being in Republican hands and all.
You are either an idiot or total agitprop. There is no third alternative.
I would guess idiot because I have no clue what "agitprop" is.
I am having a hard time understanding why you are attacking me, and my level of intelligence rather than providing evidence or reasoned arguments to better help me understand why my positions may be invalid.
I dont disagree that they did not have the votes, and that is the problem, they never have the votes when they need them, and never use them when they have them. The Democrats are a loose coalition and calling them a party is laughable.
If they want my vote they have to earn it, because every single election they pull the same shit saying that this republican is the most evil. They did it with Regan, with Bush Sr, with Bush Jr, and again with Trump. And yet somehow the most evil always shows up the next election, and nothing changes. Having a most evil is how they maintain power, and is a requirement for it to continue. If the Democrats really cared they would have already made this type of fascism impossible without having to beg and plea with the population that this time is different, and this time we just have to win to save the country, and maybe, maybe if we beg enough we can make a difference this time...
Maybe there is a third alternative, maybe you have Stockholm syndrome and are in love with your jailer.
I'd suggest until you do, don't talk about politics because you've no clue what you are spreading as these are not your ideas but those fed to you. https://www.britannica.com/topic/agitprop ag·it·prop
/ˈajətˌpräp/
noun
noun: agitprop; noun: agit-prop
So, these are not my ideas and they are being fed to me, by who? Also yes not a single one of them is my idea they are concepts that I have found through research, discussions, and deliberate thought.
You keep attacking me personally but providing no rational rebuttal to any of the references or points I have made. I really am open to adjusting my opinions when provided with better evidence or better arguments (logical not emotional). I really dont understand what you want from me, do you want me to just vote for democrats because Trump is evil? Do you want me to just vote because you think every vote counts? Do you think I have an agenda to get people not to vote for Biden because I disagree with his support of Netanyahu?
Could you please take a moment to stop attack and help me understand?
Willingness. They haven't had the willingness. They would rather protect their Jim Crow era excuse for inaction than protect abortion, trans people, and democracy itself.
Oh, cool, you will oh-so-bravely volunteer minorities to be killed because you won't be 'held hostage' by the democrats.
"I don't agree with the only group of people large enough to be viable in the election on their compromise coalition candidate; I should get to choose the coalition candidate!"
Apparently your conscience says "If I check the box that says 'throw away my vote', I'm not responsible for the millions of minorities that will be killed because of the candidate I allowed in by doing so"
Great conscience you got there.
How very egotistical of you. If we lose the election, I hope you're prepared to smile at every one of us in the camps and say "Sorry, but the Dems just didn't reach out to me; what was I supposed to do? Support a coalition candidate against fascism?"
I dont think you get it, I can't vote against any of these things, they are not options in my state. I dont get choice, we did not have a primary, the democrats are NOT viable in my state.
My plan is to stand between the fascists and my neighbors who are identified as part of any "other" group. Fascism already runs my state, and they are just waiting for the rest of the country to get on board.
The only choice left to me is to physically risk my life and the life of my family, because even protesting is against the law in my state. So when it gets to that point, it will be what I have to do.
If they were, it wouldn't matter - you made it clear that you won't be 'held hostage' by them if your vote WAS the difference between fascism and non-fascism. What a heroic stand you've made in favor of fascism!
How convenient it is for every would-be martyr that martyrdom is the only option they're willing to go through with, and not any of the long, boring, tedious, thankless work the rest of us do day after day to stop things from getting to that point. If we succeed, you don't have to do anything except crow about how nobly you were ready to sacrifice yourself. If we fail, we won't be in any position to demand you follow through on your rhetoric.
I somehow doubt that.
Fair, its semi-hyperbolic as I do enjoy basic federal protections regarding free speech. The problem is that in practice and enforcement its effectively illegal.
https://www.ericjburch.com/blog/2021/1/new-tennessee-law-may-make-protests-illegal.html
https://wpln.org/post/tennessee-gov-bill-lee-signs-law-that-will-increase-punishments-for-protesters/
https://tennesseelookout.com/2023/08/22/tn-house-passes-rules-to-restrict-speech-limit-disruptions-and-public-during-special-session/
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/29/tennessee-bill-offers-immunity-drivers-running-over-protesters/4881949001/
https://www.aclu-tn.org/en/know-your-rights/your-right-protest-tennessee
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tennessee-gop-expels-2-democratic-state-lawmakers-gun-protests-rcna78531
The summery is that if a duly appointed officer of the law says, even unconstitutionally, that I cannot protest, and I do not instantly and polity comply with this unconstitutional order, then I have committed a felony.
My only redress is to prove that the request was unconstitutional in court, AFTER i have been arrested and put in jail.
So yeah... GL.
Those words do not mean what you think they mean.
I am open to education, so what do they mean?