this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
205 points (87.5% liked)
Australia
3668 readers
165 users here now
A place to discuss Australia and important Australian issues.
Before you post:
If you're posting anything related to:
- The Environment, post it to Aussie Environment
- Politics, post it to Australian Politics
- World News/Events, post it to World News
- A question to Australians (from outside) post it to Ask an Australian
If you're posting Australian News (not opinion or discussion pieces) post it to Australian News
Rules
This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone. In addition to those rules:
- When posting news articles use the source headline and place your commentary in a separate comment
Banner Photo
Congratulations to @[email protected] who had the most upvoted submission to our banner photo competition
Recommended and Related Communities
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:
- Australian News
- World News (from an Australian Perspective)
- Australian Politics
- Aussie Environment
- Ask an Australian
- AusFinance
- Pictures
- AusLegal
- Aussie Frugal Living
- Cars (Australia)
- Coffee
- Chat
- Aussie Zone Meta
- bapcsalesaustralia
- Food Australia
- Aussie Memes
Plus other communities for sport and major cities.
https://aussie.zone/communities
Moderation
Since Kbin doesn't show Lemmy Moderators, I'll list them here. Also note that Kbin does not distinguish moderator comments.
Additionally, we have our instance admins: @[email protected] and @[email protected]
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I've always assumed that a cat would go nuts stuck inside all the time. Maybe I'm wrong but I imagine that most people would view it as cruel.
Cats go nuts at the witching hour anyway, being inside or outside has nothing to do with it.
Basically, nah, they're alright inside. They sleep for between 12 to 18 hours a day and get most active at dawn and dusk, so having some way for them to burn off energy with a good cat tree or the like will keep them occupied. And if they want more than that, they will come to you and make their demands known. And if that's still not enough and you're willing to put the effort in and do some acclimatising, you could get a second cat and they'll keep each other occupied.
I have two cats, they have never been let outside and they've been completely happy. Granted the house is a decent size and we have a lot of things to keep them entertained, but that responsibility comes with the ownership I figure.
You totally are, but at least now you know
First of all, anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Second of all, millions of cats are kept indoors 24/7 and they are fine. Thirdly, you need to work with the animal to entertain it, not dump it indoors, ignore it for years and go to work for 8hrs a day.
First of all, anecdotal evidence is evidence, is just rather poor evidence for most arguments.
My dad died last year. My brother took the cat. It used to have basically an entire rural town as his personal playground. (His territory at least doubled in size when dad moved from our large house to the supported housing apartments on the other side of the village, as then the cat just traversed both.)
My brother lives in the city. Definitely can't allow a cat to be free, especially because he's not even chipped yet.
To the point, not being able to get outside has stressed him to the point of literally tearing his hair off. Has a bald line on his tail. And no, it's not about the level of care, he has everything he needs, a large apartment, a scratching complex, with several levels, going from floor to ceiling, 4 or five different levels larger than the average scratching post by itself.
There's a very nice view from a third floor, he gets to look outside as much as he wants and hears traffic and has an open window.
My brother doesn't leave him usually for even as long as most people leave their dogs. Very good quality food. Plays with him as much as he wants.
But he gets stressed because he's never before been limited in such a way. Now it's getting better, but he definitely wasn't used to being inside all the time and it definitely was a very stressful change to adapt to.
Domesticated cats don't much vary in genetics, but in terms of behaviour, some do. To compare to big cats, tigers don't like captivity as much, and they must have a pool to swim in. Lions on the other hand fucking love lying around and getting fed.
A tiger misses the thrill of the hunt in a nice jungle, a lion is relieved they don't have to sprint after antelopes in the savannah.
So don't be pretending it's as simple ss you make it out.
Yah, uhuh, so much stimulation that the cat is ripping its fur out of frustration. News flash, it's always the owner.
"I'm not going to accept that I said something so stupid that a third-grader would laugh at it, so I'm gonna say more of equally stupid things, like 'it's always the owner'"
How ignorant do you have to be to think that taking an animal, which is used to having several square km as its personal fiefdom, and then limiting it to just one (albeit large and very well equipped) apartment wouldn't cause stress?
Yes, it causes stress, till they get used to it. It doesn't cause "rips fur out of frustration" level stress. I know, because I have a cat that was an outdoor cat that went indoors with me. I literally went through it. So yes, it absolutely always is the clueless owner who doesn't know what they are doing.
Ah yes, so now you think anecdotal evidence is evidence.
Because your personal experiences can be extrapolated to generalisations, but the experiences of others can't, yes, yes.
You're the only clueless person here. Do you know what time of the year it just was? Do you know what is in the air, wafts in through the windows, that might make male cats even more stressed out that they can't do the things they used to.
You be your hypocritical ignorant self, and an ironic one. (What with the whole "anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, and now I'll use my own anecdotal evidence as evidence.
Guess your mom is a horrible parent. I mean, when people grow up to be as willfully ignorant as you, it's always the clueless parent.
So your " outdoors" cat was a male who had a territory of several square kilometres. Literally the town's cat, more or less. Or was your "outside cat" one of those leash held shivering messes?
You've never put as much money into a pet as what the scratching/climbing/chilling complex my brother got cost. It's the size of a wall. There's plenty of toys, but for a cat who has actually hunted for himself (my dad wasn't the most attentive pet owner, so the cat actually hunted, and often) some silly strings waved by people are less than interesting.
When he's frustrated, he can be distracted for a while with say, cat mint, cognitive activation through games with treats, hell, probably things you've never even thought of doing for your cat.
But no, you just pretend that your silly little chant matters and that you know better.
Fucking lol I pity the animals you "take care of"
You pity the animals I take care of, and yet they aren't the ones ripping out their fur, having issues etc. Yes, I have a male cat that used to roam in the middle of the city and was half-feral when I got him. Had to work hard with him, but he never reached the point your brothers' cat is at.
It's funny that you keep going back to the "entire wall is a cat tower" argument and focusing on how much money was spent. None of that matters if the cat isn't engaged with enough, which is obvious is happening in your brothers case. You can't throw money at an animal and expect it to suddenly be fine if you don't do anything else with it.
Your brother is a bad owner, plain and simple. Go ahead, insult me all you want, in the end it doesn't change the facts.
You're not only stupid, you're bad at reading.
This is why I pity any animals you might own. Incredibly much.
Bet your the type to give your cats a sip of wine or a piece of your garlic chicken. Just the type.
The tail is getting better, not that you notice, because your literacy is on the same level as your knowledge of pet behaviour. :D
The cat is being engaged with for hours on end, with more activities than you have ever given your overweight little darling.
There is literally nothing you could ever do to make the transition easier, except prescription drugs, which aren't necessary. The sprayable pheromones do help as well, and they're rather expensive as well.
I go over to catsit often just for just a normal workday. The cat isn't left for even 8 hours. Well, not when it was even worse. As I've said, it's getting better.
So to repeat, no you haven't owned an actual village cat. You've owned a cat who was allowed to occasionally go look outside. Some fat, neutered inside cat, which everyone who knows jack shit about cats knows is an entirely different animal than a wild tomcat with a large territory. Ofc that group doesn't involve you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ours was the literal king of a town for the better part of a decade.
The fact you pretend those are remotely the same is why I pity any animal or person you will ever interact with; You're willfully ignorant. You can't let go of having said something so childish as "it's always the owner".
To pretending like you don't understand the first thing about territories, pheromones and feline heat.
If I were like you, I could now pretend that you actively have sex with your animals. Why? Well it's obvious. I just say it's obvious, and you can't provide me with 247 films showing you haven't raped your pets, so thus you can't prove I'm wrong, thus I'm right and you're a dirty rapist.
That's exactly the same as you pretending we aren't giving the cat the stimuli it needs.
You're an animal rapist, plain and simple.
"Cats can't get stressed by environmental factors" - Your entire argument
pathetic
Yeah, I'm not going to read your rant, have a nice day mr perfect animal trainer. Just know that your brother sucks at keeping cats happy and that's a fact. Money can't replace a responsible owner.
Exactly.
You're willfully ignorant, and that's why I pity the animals and people who have to suffer a person like you.
So you're trying yo argue that cats aren't extremely habitual animals which get stressed from external changes. Almost like someone who's never owned a cat, or if they have, then probably for the sole purpose of their own sexual gratification, the cat rapists that they are.
You see vets and science are on my side.
https://www.purina.com.au/signs-of-stress-in-your-cat.html
https://www.thornburyvet.com.au/blog/2022/3/10/signs-and-management-of-stress-in-cats
https://www.horshamvethospital.com.au/what-causes-cat-stress
You should read that, but you won't.
aw. annoying vs. an animal that will kill wildlife when birds are already at enormous risk. huh tough choice buddy. on the one hand, you might be annoyed, oh no. on the other hand we're looking at collapse of species. hrmm.
well you've posited such a great argument... pfft
They don't if you exercise a modicum of responsibility and actually make the environment one that meets their needs
Nah, they're fine, especially if they've been raised indoors. If you're cat is already an outdoor cat, they sometimes have trouble adjusting to an indoor-only lifestyle, but there are fencing options that can keep them in your yard as a compromise.
And [Dad voice] what do you get when you assume?
you are wrong with your assumption and your imagination.
Well there you have it dumb dumb.
But seriously I thought cats were like tigers or any other big cat and would prefer an open environment rather than a zoo type setting. At least being able to go outside they get both
If you think it's cruel to keep a cat inside, don't get a cat.
Ok, but OP, a random internet stranger, just assured me it’s not cruel. I don’t know who to believe or listen to and thinking for myself is out of the question.
I guess I could get half a cat? That could work
Cats are to tigers as dogs are too wolves. They all would like to roam around freely. We don't generally want people to let their dogs roam though.
I have a cat and a dog. The dog gets to go out unsupervised for short periods, but he digs so I mostly go outside with him. I take the cat out several times a day and she wishes I'd let her out more. But I don't want her killing stuff so I make sure she has plenty of toys and entertainment inside too.
That's because it is cruel.
Large numbers always seem terrifying, because our human minds are not made for them. The only way to comprehend them is to compare them to other things - in this case all the ways we humans cause damage to the environment directly. Our suburbs are ecological dead zones already. There is just not much space left between asphalt roads, driveways, and neatly trimmed lawn. It's definitely the cat that goes outside for one hour a day who is the problem. Right next to plastic straws.
The real frustrating thing about all this that the companies that exploit our planet to core keep doing their shit (Noooo you cant work from home for your office job, you MUST commute to the city daily, because reasons!) while we fight with our neighbors about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Cars definitely kill wildlife too - estimation methodologies vary, but I've seen estimates saying:
Of course, habit destruction and pollution has a huge impact as well.
But roaming pet cats legitimately are a major part of the problem. It is possible to simultaneously replace lawns with tree cover, and reduce the burden of cats. That could also feed into a comprehensive policy of tackling stray and feral cat populations - something which is made harder in suburbs due to roaming pet cats.
As for whether it is cruel: change is a stressor for cats, so a sudden change from outdoor access to indoor-only could increase stress levels, but that is a one-off transition and there could be ways to manage that (for example, by providing a lot of notice of a change and allowing owners to phase out access, or by having a permit system for indoor and outdoor cats, and allowing renewal of existing permits for specific microchipped cats, but no new outdoor cat permits). Outdoor access / hunting outdoors is a form of enrichment for cats, but not the only one possible. Indoor cats can play with toys, and have owners simulate chasing and hunting activities indoors (for example, with ribbons, small balls, chasing cat treats, and so on) to provide similar enrichment. At the same time, the indoors protect cats from stressful situations like encountering or being mauled by dogs, aggressive cats, foxes, brushtail possums, injuries on the roads, and disease.
Then why add cats to the pressure the local fauna are feeling?
Let's take what you're saying about dead zones as true. Somehow birds still come by to visit local bird feeders etc, in spite of how much negative pressure we Hunan's are causing. Add a well-fed apex predator into the mix, far from its native homelands in Egypt. How is that fair to local flora and fauna?