DarthFrodo

Morally inferior would be "they have a differing belief structure that is lesser than mine".

Oh, that's the misunderstanding. I meant morally inferior in terms of their moral value (how much their lives are worth to us).

To speak broadly, animals do not have morals because they do not have beliefs unless you broaden the word heavily.

I agree that they don't have moral systems. When we save people from burning buildings or oppose murder, thats because we see them as having moral value, their beliefs have nothing to do with that.

To look at your examples, you may be meaning post-industrialization.

Yes, our farming practices changed a lot after the industrialization, and current practices are what's relevant now. In the past people just scrambled not to starve or be malnourished in the winter, which fortunately isn't a concern in most societies anymore. Almost everyone has access to supermarkets and can live a healthy life without meat, which wasn't possible in the past.

If some people have to steal food to survive, that doesn't justify stealing when it's not a necessity anymore. So talking about historic situations is besides the point here.

Although after industrialization, I could argue they were both both pragmatic and utilitarian. Suffering does not factor into either of those things.

That literally goes against the definition of utilitarianism:

In ethical philosophy, utilitarianism is a family of normative ethical theories that prescribe actions that maximize happiness and well-being for all affected individuals.

If you take the negative effects on affected individuals out of the equation, that's not utilitarianism, that's egoism. Putting animals on miserable factory farms for their whole life to get a few minutes of taste pleasure doesn't maximize utility, it minimizes utility. Not to speak of the resource cost and environmental destruction which is a huge negative for human society.

I don't think anybody called pigs or cows morally inferior?

Many, many people say or think "they're just animals, so it's not wrong to kill them", which is the same argument.

Our farming practices were arrived at mostly through utilitarianism.

Maybe you meant pragmatically? Utilitarianism would include the suffering of the victim, but 99% of meat eaters I met (also my former self) buy meat from supermarkets and restaurants with no regard or even thought of the living conditions that the animals had to endure.

Our farming practices were arrived at by the free market. Farmers have to continually lower production costs to stay cost-competetive, because most customers buy the cheapest products available. If two restaurants had the same meal, one at 12$ and the other 10$, almost everyone will choose the cheaper option of course, no questions asked.

Cost reduction had been the main driving factor for our farming practices in the last few decades. Suffering is irrelevant for capitalism.

If we're not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of food?

• Cannibals, probably

By pushing NATO closer to Russian borders.

Countries apply for themselves, exactly because of Russian imperialism, and the Ukraine invasion proved them right. NATO is just a defense pact. It's none of Putins business if neighboring countries want to join NATO.

And there is definitely issues with Nazis in Ukraine that are inconvenient to address for westerners for some reason

There are Nazis in every country. The Ukrainian government isn't run by Nazis, it's closely aligned with the EU. Russia is obviously much more fascist than Ukraine so this whole point is an utterly ridiculous justification.

People like to look at global politics as some kind of “good guys vs bad guys” oversimplification

I agree actually. The US did many questionable things with their coups and wars and use of torture around the world, so I wouldn't say they are the good guys. In the Ukraine war it's clear that Putin/the Kreml are the bad guys though.

because that’s what they teach you in western nations

Depends on the region and teachers I guess. Here in Germany there is a large focus on the bad things that came from our country and people tend to not trust governments very much, including our own.

a knowledge by that the US has a larger roll in this

By doing what?

Ukraine isn’t totally innocent.

Because they didn't just surrender and hand themselves over to putin who now murders their families?

Edit: oh, she moderated Russia today lol. No wonder she perpetuates Russian propaganda.

Quite the contrast to how cows are treated on western/profit-driven factory farms.

It seems to be a far right culture war circlejerk with a focus on harassing trans people (based on the few posts I've seen).

Good to know that it's already implemented on kbin, thanks!

The neat thing is, you can add stuff like range checks and logging for getters and setters without changing every call. Separation of concerns is also vital in larger projects.

It's a volunteer project which was never tested with nearly as many users as they have now, of course there are a few issues. We should give them a few weeks to sort everything out.