this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023
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[–] Alivrah 243 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It wasn’t until they ported about 70% of Skyrim Together’s revered code to the Starfield project, though, that they bumped into a problem: “This game is fucking trash.”

“I didn't realize this until after I actually started playing the damn game a week after launch,” they say. “The game is boring, bland, and the main draw of Bethesda games, exploration in a lively and handcrafted world, was completely gone.

The modder started working on it before playing the game. It's kind of funny in a way, but also cool that they wanted to give people multiplayer ASAP.

[–] Bimbleby 44 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Thing is Skyrim wasn't particularly handcrafted or lively either, the models for things like dungeons were repeated all the time and the NPC liveliness was lacklustre compared to eurojank games like Gothic.

[–] Poem_for_your_sprog 23 points 11 months ago (7 children)

After playing elden ring I'm done with Bethesda. Haven't even tried starfeelz

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

Not sure why this is downvoted, radiant quests were a big feature in Skyrim, and were technically kinda impressive, but still repetitive. Likewise, quests for the College of Bards were mostly just a dungeon fetch quests and things.

It's still a great game, but it was great for the bits that were handcrafted.

But give it 5-10 years and I'd be very interested to see another pass at procedural generation using machine learning, especially dialogue, could open the doors to more creativity than would be possible when doing it all by hand!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Nothing in any of these games has been particularly hand crafted. They were a big early user of procedural generation.

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[–] CodexArcanum 211 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Just recently, Xbox boss Phil Spencer said he hopes Starfield will be a 12-year hit, just like Skyrim.

Yeah no fucking shit Phil, the fans would have loved a generation-defining megahit as well! Maybe you should have told Todd to try making the game good as well as marketable?

[–] NOT_RICK 99 points 11 months ago (5 children)

The tech debt is just glaring at this point. They need an actual new engine instead of yet another gamebryo rework.

[–] [email protected] 107 points 11 months ago (8 children)

No, they need a competent dev team. To this day, Valve is using a game engine that is, at its core, the Quake engine from 1996. Goldsrc? Source? Source 2? All increasingly heavily reworked versions of the Quake engine. And they can use it for everything from Alyx to Dota 2! If Valve can do it, why can't Bethesda?

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

Except that Quake is a good engine.

GameBryo is and has always been shit. There are other games from competent devs on that engine, and they also are full of problems.

Building a house with a solid foundation is still important. Quake is bedrock. GameBryo is sand.

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[–] woelkchen 28 points 11 months ago (2 children)

To this day, Valve is using a game engine that is, at its core, the Quake engine from 1996. Goldsrc? Source? Source 2? All increasingly heavily reworked versions of the Quake engine.

All Valve statements about the Source2 port of Counter-Strike say Source2 is a completely new engine.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 11 months ago (17 children)

It's new in the sense they have rebuilt large enough parts of it to fully justify giving it a new name. Certainly it's very far removed from Quake. It's not like they've been sitting on their hands for almost 30 years. But it's not like they rebuilt it all from scratch, either; just the parts they needed to. Old code is still being used, and even new code still sometimes uses the old as a base. The most obvious visual example that comes to mind is the pattern they still use for flickering lights which has been around since the Quake days.

It's a bit of a Ship of Theseus situation, but I think my point still stands: Bethesda doesn't need an entirely new engine, they need devs who can (or more likely, need to give their devs time to) properly rebuild the parts that need it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I mean a huge (really huge) number of game engines ultimately draw lineage from Quake. It's either Quake or Unreal.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

All statements Bethesda has made about Creation say the same thing. Doesn't mean it's true.

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[–] woelkchen 32 points 11 months ago

Maybe you should have told Todd to try making the game good as well as marketable?

But he "Plans to Release a 1st-Party Blockbuster or Highly Anticipated Title Every 3 Months"

There is no place for "when it's done" with this attitude.

[–] [email protected] 101 points 11 months ago (13 children)

Well, that's not a good sign for Starfield's modding future. Honestly, it feels like post-Skyrim Bethesda just assumes their games will have a robust modding community. Except that for a game to garner that kind of community it has to be, you know, good. Maybe Bethesda hopes paid modding will be the carrot that brings modders to Starfield, but even if that becomes the standard I don't expect many people will want to make mods for a game they don't even enjoy playing.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think somebody said something on those lines already but there's so much work to do to mod starfield into something good that the whole thing would be like 80% mods by the time you were finished. Unless there's an API it's just going to be mods interacting on top of other mods and the whole thing is going to be a nightmare.

I've looked into it and it's not exactly easy considering how clearly they need modding in order to make the game a success. You would think that it would be in their interest to make it simple but, nope.

They may just actually be that incompetent.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You're not necesarrily wrong, but modders currently have a more difficult time than with Skyrim.

As far as I'm aware, modding tools from Bethesda haven't been released yet, kinda limiting what people can do.

Not that it can't be done, its just more difficult and time consuming than using producer built tools. People were modding games before any one put out tools for that purpose. Notepad and a hex editor can get you a long way if you know what you're doing, at least back then.

I guess I should say this is from the perspective of a PC gamer, primarily. I've used consoles in the past, sure, but my last console was an Xbox 360 and before that a PS2.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Back in 2012 I couldn't put Skyrim down for 2 or 3 playthroughs, even without mods. Of course I'm older now and got less spare time… but I didn't even get past the first few quests in Starfield. I don't know why it doesn't grab me the same way.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Like the other comment says, it's empty, but I mean it in a different way. It has no soul. Skyrim you can feel the passion in the quests, the characters, and the world. Starfield is super bland, despite being a new IP they could have done anything with, and being sci-fi, which the purpose of sci-fi is to critique our current world. It's the most milque toast sci-fi I've seen. It doesn't question the current status-quo, despite corporations literally destroying Earth. You can rarely question authority. The characters all have identical views on everything, and that's the "good" view that doesn't really try to change anything for the better.

Also, the connecting fibers of the game just don't exist. No system really ties into another, besides making money but money is nearly worthless. Nothing seems to have been considered on how to make it function as a cohesive product.

Basically it fails emotionally and technically.

[–] Graphine 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is probably my favorite explanation for it.

It tries to be emotional, at least the main story. But it fucking fails miserably. I think the only part that actually got me feeling dread or interest was going to visit NASA on Earth. That shit was amazing it pisses me off we only spend ONE FUCKING MISSION on that planet and never go back for anything else.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago

Because its empty. In skyrim you see NPCs having interesting interaction with each other and the PC. In starfield you just quick travel from empty city to empty planet

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago

this game is fucking trash

Sounds about right

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (5 children)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Does Todd Howard know how reviled he is?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago

That part where he talks about being made fun of for being in chess club...

...it's like no... that's not why people made fun of you, Todd. They made fun of you because you were the twerp claiming your uncle at NASA could get you on a spaceflight and then kept making excuses as to why the final story was your uncle taking you on a regular ass flight. People don't like people who lie painfully obviously for attention and interest.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

🎶 Tell me lies. Tell me sweet little lies. 🎶

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

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[–] mriormro 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I played a bit of this game because of game pass. The intro was so jarringly stupid I couldn't be compelled to continue playing.

[–] EncryptKeeper 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It doesn’t get better either. The entire main story is just so contrived and boring.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hard agree. This game is ridiculously mediocre for a production of this caliber

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Personally I think the moment when Bethesda lost their way was somewhere between Skyrim and the DLC for Skyrim. Maybe its unprecedented commercial success went to their corporate heads.

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