this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
112 points (91.8% liked)

Australia

3672 readers
352 users here now

A place to discuss Australia and important Australian issues.

Before you post:

If you're posting anything related to:

If you're posting Australian News (not opinion or discussion pieces) post it to Australian News

Rules

This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone. In addition to those rules:

Banner Photo

Congratulations to @[email protected] who had the most upvoted submission to our banner photo competition

Recommended and Related Communities

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:

Plus other communities for sport and major cities.

https://aussie.zone/communities

Moderation

Since Kbin doesn't show Lemmy Moderators, I'll list them here. Also note that Kbin does not distinguish moderator comments.

Additionally, we have our instance admins: @[email protected] and @[email protected]

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If Australian Sushi is cultural appropriation, I'd love to hear this person justify "New York Pizza".

New York Pizza is famous globally and recognised as something different to Italian style Pizza. Is that also cultural appropriation?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chicago deep dish is another whole crazy thing too.

[–] Voyajer 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, that's just a pan pizza that happens to be square but I'll give it to you as a valid regional variant.

I will also direct you to the wikipedia entry for "California-style Pizza" which contains some wild pictures of potentially illegal pizzas.

[–] Voyajer 3 points 1 year ago

Detroit style does have that very thick crust throughout the whole pie to differentiate itself from Chicago style

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Voyajer @Faceman2K23 Just wait until the world learns about Lithuanian-style sushi. (And yep, it's a thing that actually exists. It's a slice of herring with beetroot, wrapped in mashed potatoes and sesame seeds.)

As for pizza — the modern variety was apparently developed by Italian-American migrants, and then introduced back to Italy: https://youtu.be/7uJ_996KlM0?si=RSq3X0TqsIkVNAr5

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Damn I want to try that now !

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

America is the land of stealing other foods and making it their own

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

culture is a thing that evolves over time and place, it shouldn't have to be preserved in the "correct" version if the origin is acknowledged.

these things exist outside of western culture too. I'd be surprised if all the types of dumplings weren't derivatives of each other.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, seeing as how tomatoes are from the Americas, who is appropriating who.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Oh boy! That's a whole different can of worms:
isn't it curious how similar pizza is to Middle Eastern flat breads with toppings? And how Italians invented spaghetti shortly after Marco Polo returned from China where he would have been exposed to noodle dishes?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

TIL Australian Sushi is a thing! It never occurred to me that they don’t have the easy to hold rolls in other parts of the world. I think they make up like 10% of my diet haha.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

TIL too... I'm still not sure I understand what non Australian sushi is though. I just figured 'authentic' sushi would be what we have but with higher quality ingredients or potentially cut into slices to be easier to eat with chopsticks

[–] StorminNorman 5 points 1 year ago

Sushi more refers to the vinegared rice in the dish. What we have here in Australia is actually made in Japan, but only really popular in certain parts of the country at certain festivals etc. They do make handrolls, but as you suggested, they are cut into pieces.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you ever eat sushi with salmon, that's a Norwegian "invention" that was made to sell more fish Japan. No country "owns" a dish.

[–] SuckMyWang 5 points 1 year ago

I think we can all agree as a society that as far as cultural sensitivity goes, food is off limits. You eat what you want how you want it and no one has the right to stop you. Yes they are allowed to think gross or no way I’d never eat that but there should also be respect for each other as individuals with different preferences. Personally I take the same view with sexuality and kinks, I don’t have to like it and I’m allowed to be grossed out a bit but at the end of the day people do what makes them happy and they’re no less caring, funny or thoughtful than the next person.

[–] tacosplease 24 points 1 year ago (9 children)

This is nonsense. Burgers are sold in damn near every country. The US is full of Americanized taco places and tex mex restaurants. We have "Chinese food" buffets that stock American versions of Chinese foods. We eat Pad Thai thinking it's a popular Thai dish when really it's just something they thought Americans would like. US has pubs that serve "fish and chips". There are French restaurants, Mongolian restaurants, Afghani restaurants... McDonald's sells spaghetti in Vietnam.

We all eat each other's foods. What is different about Australians having their own version of sushi? This seems entirely unremarkable.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For a lot of the things you mention, one of the distinctions is that many of the foods were created by said ethicity, but adapted the cooking techniques and ingredients to the local pallet.

Edit: im not defending either side (i believe the chef is of japanese origin) its just there is a distinction between adapted foods and ones that arent.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely gorgeous article.

I had no idea our sushi rolls and banh mi were so divergent. How long until "Australian Banh Mi" is a thing overseas?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The wonderful thing about food is that it's always changing. People shit on stuff for not being "authentic" but frankly I think it's delightful how different traditions come together to play. Mixing and matching until the local food reflects the available ingredients and preferences of the populous.

I mean I make a mean lemon tofu which is a derivative of lemon chicken which is a derivative of a Cantonese style that was adapted for churning out cheap and appealing food so migrants could work at takeaway stores and get visas.

Food tells a story, wherever you have it and however you have it. Appreciating that is imho the more joyful approach than trying to fix it in time.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Cultural appropriation is such a strange issue. It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up... And it's pretty obvious too I think that opening a restaurant selling food from overseas is almost always cultural exchange... I don't really think you can open a restaurant without a solid understanding of the food you're making (quite unlike putting on a headdress and getting hammered on Halloween)... Somewhere in between there's a line, perhaps, but I have absolutely no idea where it is. White people with dreads is in there somewhere, no one seems to agree on it, personally I think it's pretty far removed from its origins and is basically a white hippy thing in it's own right, regardless of how it began, but I know a lot of people disagree.

[–] electrogamerman 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a mexican, I dont mind people dressing as mexican for carneval, or making variations of mexican food, as long as they aren't anti mexican, and I think that's where the line is drawn. A culture dont get to "steal" other culture things and also not want them living with them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's reasonable. I suppose there's something distinct in the "costume" based on how significant the cultural garb is. I don't know much about mexican culture so correct me if I'm wrong, but is the stereotypical sombrero/poncho combination more a product of convenience and weather than culture? Contrasting with the Native American headdress or Hindu bindi which are culturally significant in (I believe) a different way.

[–] electrogamerman 4 points 1 year ago

I do agree that the poncho and sombrero are not really a mexican cultural thing (although the shape and colors make it specific to mexico on top of drawing a (mexican) mustache). Like I said, I dont mind it, just don't be anti mexican, and this applies to other cultures too.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up

Why is it fucked up?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I've heard people claim cultural appropriation over this or that, but I'm not convinced it's a real thing, and not just people being offended on behalf of someone else.

That's not to say that cultures don't get appropriated, but is that a bad thing? White people rocking dreadlocks, cool. Black people sporting a kimono, nice. Asian people with Klan robes, what.

We live in a culturally interconnected global community now, no group has ownership over aesthetics.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cultural Appropriation is real, but it usually refers to entire nations or massive artists or corporations adopting a caricature of smaller cultures, to the extent that people start associating it with that nation or artist rather than the culture. An example here is Picasso using African imagery, or pop stars copying underground music genres and effectively killing them off.

The problem is that people use it to talk about regular people starting a Sushi restaurant or whatever. They do not have the power to do this sort of thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Fair enough. It reminds me of the whole conversation about critical race theory. It isn't what most people think it is, and is reserved for discussions regarding much more nuanced understandings.

I still think it's hard to distinguish whether something is, or isn't cultural appropriation. Where is the line between inspiration and a knock-off?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Where is the line between inspiration and a knock-off?

So firstly, just like critical race theory, cultural appropriation is meant to be analysis. Fixing it doesn't just mean "OK guys don't do a cultural appropriation", it's meant to explain why cultures can lose their identity, and how they struggle.

A big part of the analysis is the power differential. One of the problems is that the culture is more associated with the trope than the real culture. It's a very large and powerful community (or individual) taking art from a small community. It's Taylor Swift using a drawing to promote her songs, not paying for it, and asking the artist to be glad she gave her the attention. It's Britney Spears (IIRC) making a pop song using ideas from an online subgenre and not crediting it, causing the subgenre to implode.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From what I've heard, plenty of black folks are mad about white people with dreadlocks because black people have been penalised for having locs for so long and along comes the dominant culture saying "actually that's cool and we're gonna make it cool, but you still look like shit".

Same with the fox eye trend that non Asians did for a bit, when Asian kids were forever bullied for having eyes like that.

Cultural sharing? Excellent. Cultural appropriation where one culture is plundered for anything of value and that culture is also denied acceptance for having those same characteristics? Not so good.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I understand that, but the people who were mad about those things were the fringe, most people didn't give a shit.

From what I remember, dreadlocks are a Caribbean thing, but the African-American population had adopted them.

There's a case to be made, based on what you're saying, that there's no issue because the African-American population weren't being oppressive.

However, Identity Politics is the most boring game in town. To judge who is culturally appropriating and who isn't is to assume a persons entire history based on the colour of their skin, which is, you know..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] superfes 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is the knife upside down?

...

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

Because it's an Australian knife, duh 🙃

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds delightful! Sounds like we need some Australian Sushi in my neck of the woods!

[–] RagingRobot 3 points 1 year ago

Throw some wasabi on the barbie

[–] electrogamerman 6 points 1 year ago

Wait till they hear about mexican sushi

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

What a crock ;)

load more comments
view more: next ›