this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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27
Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7 (www.timesofisrael.com)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/news
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No major news organisation has been given the opportunity to verify this footage. As such it should be treated sceptically until verified independently. The IDF have already been caught editing and altering video evidence, as demonstrated by the BBC.

But lets say it is unedited and is verified. What does it show? It shows Hamas operatives taking two injured hostages into a hospital. That's it. The IDF says "These findings prove that the Hamas terror organization used Shifa Hospital on the day of the massacre itself as terror infrastructure,”

Well, no, it doesn't. It shows that some Hamas terrorists used the hospital....as a hospital e.g. they took injured hostages into it. Just because terrorists make use of a location's facilities doesn't necessarily mean there was an extensive command post in or under the location.

The IDF have yet to demonstrate or provide anything credible to back up their claim the hospital was an extensive command post.

"The latest video is not yet the evidence that's been promised of the sort of vast and intricate operation depicted in a computer simulation which the IDF previously released showing what it believes any Hamas base underground at al-Shifa could look like."

BBC

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Well that ignores that they passed five other hospitals to get to this one. Why? Because they own the place.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Where's that information? Because it's not in the link you posted.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And do all those other hospitals offer identical and appropriate services? Because in my local area there are three hospitals, all offering differing types of services, meaning that depending on what I needed treatment for I would have to drive reasonably close to two of them, including emergency care.

This feels like a real stretch - that map you linked to - the straight line goes near (ish) two other hospitals, not five for example. Maybe the hostages didn't require hospital treatment until they were in that area? Who knows? Your assigning meaning to actions based solely on your desire for it to be true, not on actual evidence.

But OK, lets say you're right and they ignored all the other hospitals because their goal was that area in particular - how does that equate to that hospital being a major and extensive command post when literally nothing that's been presented as evidence by the IDF demonstrates that opinion? Surely if it was then there'd be a lot more than a few random terrorists on those stills.

Let me put it another way - if three or four Hamas terrorists took thirsty hostages to a Starbucks, would you see that as definitive proof that that Starbucks is, or is on top of, an extensive Hamas command post?

At some point you're going to need actual evidence, independently verified. Not just unexplained, unverified crap that could mean anything.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

And do all those other hospitals offer identical and appropriate services?akel

it seems funny that you would spend so much keyboard time on something so feeble.

You are a Hamas terrorist and have just spent your leisurely hours raping and murdering. You have a hostage gut shot. Do you...

1 take them to the nearest medical facility for treatment because you care

2 take them to your HQ

Please think.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Good grief, do you really not understand that some hospitals offer different types of treatment to others???

Not all hospitals are set up for emergency treatment. Seriously.

But lets (once more) give you the benefit of the doubt and say all those hospitals are the same size and offer the exact treatment that that one does...how does that establish that hospital as a major command centre for Hamas? That's the IDF's rationale for attacking that hospital after all.

Look, I am not saying that hospital is a Hamas free zone, that no one form Hamas has ever been in it. I'm not even saying that it isn't Hamas' favoured hospital because of it's location or maybe there are a few Hamas-friendly people on staff there. I mean, there is zero evidence for any of that but it's a possibility, right? It's also a possibility that you and the IDF are absolutely correct and it really is a major command centre for Hamas.

What I'm saying to you is that, based on what the IDF have presented as evidence - none of it verified, and that which has been examined revealed to have been altered/edited and all of it completely shorn of any context by which we might be able to make inferences - there's pretty much nothing to suggest it is/was.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sigh...

Not all hospitals are set up for emergency treatment. Seriously.

Hospitals in that part of the world aren't organized by western standards. Besides which I doubt a hamas terrorist is thinking about a hospital's quality of care, even if they knew it existed in the first place.

What I'm saying to you is that, based on what the IDF have presented as evidence - none of it verified, and that which has been examined revealed to have been altered/edited and all of it completely shorn of any context by which we might be able to make inferences - there's pretty much nothing to suggest it is/was.

So I shouldn't believe my lying eyes. I see

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hospitals in that part of the world aren’t organized by western standards.

I'm not suggesting they are. I'm simply suggesting to you that no two hospitals offer the same level of services, or even the same services.

Besides which I doubt a hamas terrorist is thinking about a hospital’s quality of care, even if they knew it existed in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that, aside from a medical professional, a terrorist is the ideal person to ask about the services a hospital is capable of delivering.

So I shouldn’t believe my lying eyes. I see

Your eyes aren't what's lying. You're lying to yourself if you genuinely believe what the IDF have presented as incontrovertible proof isn't very severely lacking in just about every respect. They've literally been caught doctoring video.

If the sides were reversed here...if a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone in it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented the exact same evidence as the IDF have, would you believe it then?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You seem to search for excuses to be right.

a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone inal it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented...

But, that's not what happened. Israel took the hospital without harming anyone. Before that happened, they provided fuel for the hospitals generators which Hamas didn't let them have. It stopped functioning as a hospital and the WHO shut it down.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you genuinely believe that then us having this conversation is pointless. The IDF themselves confirmed they'd sent about 100 Commando's and six tanks to the hospital which several days before had lost power and oxygen leading to multiple deaths. To spell it out to you, you send commandos and tanks to attack and intimidate, not have a pleasant chat.

The fuel thing - I have no idea who to believe at this point. There's no verified evidence either claim is true or untrue.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I imagine they did, yet no one was hurt in the hospital.

There's no verified evidence either claim is true or untrue.

It's funny. The video of Israelis delivering fuel was even on CNN. Must be my lying eyes again.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

I imagine they did, yet no one was hurt in the hospital.

Right, apart from the multiple deaths no one was hurt.

It’s funny. The video of Israelis delivering fuel was even on CNN. Must be my lying eyes again.

Yeah, I saw that too. Funnily enough, as I thought I was clear about, I wasn't disputing they did. I was disputing why or how it was refused.

Anyway, after that interesting little side mission, lets get back to the point. if a major hospital in Israel was being attacked and disabled by a vastly superior force and everyone in it either killed or forced to move because this force said a terrorist group had a major operational base there and they presented the exact same evidence as the IDF have, would you believe it then?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Who wants to open the door?

https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1726326785325854759?t=eCVH0uNFwWT8zPt74IGTSg&s=19

[–] Madison420 2 points 11 months ago

Have you ever seen soldiers in rat holes? Tip number one, you have night vision use it, second don't run, third don't run with a flashlight down a hall you can't see down.

It seems weak evidence.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Pigs. Still not a reason to bomb hospitals. Wait if they bomb the hospital they kill the hostages.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nobody bombed the hospital itself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

According to the un there were more than 130 attacks on healthcare services by isreal in gaza...

[–] [email protected] -3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

First thing is, we've just witnessed how truthful they are.