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Ireland: Wind generation exceeds demand for electricity for the first time ever (www.euronews.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/world

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[–] AceBonobo 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Auto tldr bot missed this:

Currently, the country’s electricity grid is only permitted to have a maximum of 75 per cent renewables in its energy mix. That meant that some of the energy was exported to Britain and Ireland had to meet the rest of the demand using fossil fuels.

This limit has gone up over the years from 50 to 75 per cent since 2011 and is set to increase further to 95 per cent by 2030. It is in place because using entirely renewable power means changes have to be made to the country’s electricity grid.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I suppose at least if it was exported to the UK, it was hopefully still displacing some fossil fuel usage

[–] sugartits 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The UK sometimes has an excess of green energy as well.

I'm on a limited trial where I sometimes get completely free electricity for a couple of hours on specific days (my provider emails the day before to let me know and opt in).

I can charge my car, my solar batteries (they can charge from the grid if instructed), run the dishwasher, washing machine. And it costs nothing.

And then during the peak usage times, I'm using less power as I've done the stuff I would have done in those peak hours.

They don't do this from the goodness of their heart: there is an excess of energy available and they want it used instead of turning off production. Hopefully this rolls out to more areas soon.

I used to be on an "agile" tariff where the price changes every 30 minutes. Sometimes the price would go negative and I'd get paid to use energy. A good opportunity to turn on some fan heaters and warm the garden. Those flowers look a little chilly.

[+] WindowCreep -17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Why do they have to burn fossil fuels? That's fucking stupid

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Im torn between giving an upvote for asking a question or giving a downvote for your following sentence given the answer was in the comment you were replying to.

Also, if you ask a question wouldn’t it be wise to wait for the answer before also passing judgement on something.

“Why is this like this? That’s fucking dumb.” Doesn’t quite work does it? How can it be dumb if you don’t know how it works. Why should we trust your assessment on its dumbness if you’ve already conceded you don’t know.

[–] dojan -3 points 1 year ago

They’re not asking how, they’re asking why. And something can absolutely appear as dumb without you knowing why something is one way or another.

It might not be dumb, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t look dumb. Besides that’s entirely subjective.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Base load generators cant adjust their output quickly enough to match the daily demand curve. Your options are to keep them online at a fixed level 24/7, or cut them entirely. If you don't have enough renewable production to meet overnight demand, you have to meet that demand with base load generators, which means you have to keep those generators online. If you have to keep them online, and wind is providing more power than is being demanded, you have to cut the wind production to match demand.

To get those (usually coal-fired) generators offline, you need to drop your overnight consumption, add storage, switch to non-fossil baseload generators (nuclear), use less efficient "peaker" plants (usually gas turbine generators fired by natural gas or oil), or some combination thereof.

You're right, it is "fucking stupid", but it is due to the functional limitations of the equipment they currently have available. With those limitations, the best option is to export your excess wind production to someone who needs it, and improve your own grid to reduce reliance on fossil fuels.

[–] WindowCreep 2 points 1 year ago

Makes more sense now 👌

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Renewables suffer from intermittency .. production depends on whether the wind is blowing or the sun is shining .. and they can't be ramped up quickly to cope with increased demand. So you need a baseline source to take care of that and the only options we have are fossil fuel or nuclear.

[–] Olap 4 points 1 year ago

Ireland outlawed nuclear in 1999. Not a NATO member quite famously too

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nuclear can't be ramped up quickly either, as you said it's the stable baseline

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm guessing that it can be ramped up ahead of time, the grid will know when peak demands are during the day and during special events.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Baseload generation can be ramped up or down, yes. But, can't be ramped up or down fast enough to meet variations in daily demand. You can't slow it down fast enough in the evening to follow the drop off as everyone goes to bed. You can't speed it up fast enough in the morning as everyone wakes up and gets to work.

You have to keep it running at a nearly constant output level.

Generators that can be ramped up and down fast enough to match the demand curve are known as "peaker plants". Baseload plants are extremely efficient; peakers are much less efficient. Baseload plants use a few, giant steam turbines. Peakers typically use a large number of small, gas turbines, or even reciprocating engines.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually, they just can't be ramped, neither fast nor slow. What is done is just wasting part of the (heat)-energy that is produced. If you want to utilize NPPs you need storage, just like with renewables but more expensive to build.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You need some way of matching generation and consumption. "Peaker plants" and "Storage" are the typical answers, but they are not the only ones available.

We currently operate primarily on a "supply shaping" model, where we assume consumers are going to use whatever they want, whenever they want, and we adjust our production to match. They will pay a fixed price per kWh, without regard to the effects of their load on the grid. Responsibility for matching is entirely on the supplier.

We could shift our focus toward a "demand shaping" model, where we incentivize some of our (large, industrial) customers to go offline during peak hours, or switch to off-peak schedules to raise the base load.

[–] dojan 1 points 1 year ago

You can’t force the wind to blow or the sun to shine. Hydroelectric is different.

[–] thethirdobject 10 points 1 year ago

It is in place because using entirely renewable power means changes have to be made to the country's electricity grid.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Wind power generation temporarily exceeded the total demand for electricity in Ireland for the first time ever this week.

Though Storm Agnes brought strong winds across the country, it isn’t unusual for it to reach this level.

What was unusual was the fact that it surpassed the demand on Ireland’s electricity grid throughout the entire island for the first time.

That meant that some of the energy was exported to Britain and Ireland had to meet the rest of the demand using fossil fuels.

In August, the amount of energy generated by wind increased by 71 per cent when compared to the same month last year.

The latest figures mean that in total, Irish wind farms provided 32 per cent of the country’s power over the first eight months of 2023.

The original article contains 438 words, the summary contains 131 words. Saved 70%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Just did a bike tour through Ireland and can confirm: is windy.

[+] [email protected] -19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don’t morally dislike wind turbines but wow that’s ugly.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don't "morally" dislike wind turbines, but you went on the internet and took time to tell people that you believe they are "ugly".

I mean fuck it, right? Roughly 250,000 deaths a year at present, guaranteed to grow, but you don't like how it looks. How do you think coal powered power plants look? Oil refineries are also pretty easy on the eyes, yeah?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago

You feel very strongly it seems. Aren’t we trying to protect this planet? None of those turbines are even trying to use the anti bird strike paint to protect the native species.

[–] positiveWHAT 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've been impacted by anime wind turbine pictures and think it is kinda pretty and optimist-futuristic. E: but the huger ones are prettier.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago

I wish I could feel this way.